Home Page Forums General Discussion Shrinking wards due to boundary changes?

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  • #212470
    Anonymous
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    Our SP loves to read draw ward boundaries and does so every single year. In fact, my ward has been rezoned twice in one year. He likes to chop wards down to numbers that almost cripple the ward. He says that there is an algorithm out there that stake presidents have been asked to follow where they can re-draw boundaries to where they are within a certain number of active priesthood holders (forget women and children), and once they are in that sweet spot, they can make the change.

    He has been told that this sweet spot is what will actually grow a ward. I have been very vocal about my negative feelings on his tactic.

    However, and this is me eating crow, our Sunday school class went from four attending members in the RS room to now we are looking for a larger room to accommodate everybody who is attending. Our SM attendance is growing every week. I’m not sure where these people are coming from (we are new to the area ourselves), but most of them are just coming out of inactivity.

    Has anyone else seen this tactic? And has it worked like our ward?

    #334433
    Anonymous
    Guest

    QuestionAbound wrote:

    Our SP loves to read draw ward boundaries and does so every single year.

    I haven’t seen anything like that, but:

    1) I don’t have much exposure to what lots of other stakes are doing.

    2) There are a lot of rural areas where I live and you can’t really redraw boundaries out in more rural areas. The boundary is the whole town or even the whole county. Where do you go from there?

    I live in an area where there are lots of members (for the mission field) where they could conceivably mix things up like you are talking about but over several decades my experience is that boundaries only get redrawn when a new ward or new stake is created due to growth. There are a few wards in our stake that are out of balance, really large when compared to other wards in the stake. They could redraw boundaries to balance things out but I don’t anticipate the boundaries being redrawn until those larger wards grow enough to be split. That’s the way it’s always worked in my area.

    Interesting approach though. It must wreak havoc on relationships.

    Maybe your SP discovered a way to game the system when he reports to area presidencies:

    [img]https://i.imgur.com/3Oj3LD2.jpg[/img]

    #334434
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Yeah, my family has been a part of three different wards in the past two years, and there’s rumor the SP is trying to create a new ward we’ll become a part of. It’s funny… we’re 15 minutes away from two different buildings, and yet have to make a 30 minute trip each Sunday to attend “our ward”.

    QuestionAbound wrote:


    Our SM attendance is growing every week. I’m not sure where these people are coming from (we are new to the area ourselves), but most of them are just coming out of inactivity.

    I am going to tip my cynical hat here… Are you sure this isn’t because we’ve changed to a two-hour block?

    #334435
    Anonymous
    Guest

    dande48 wrote:


    Yeah, my family has been a part of three different wards in the past two years, and there’s rumor the SP is trying to create a new ward we’ll become a part of. It’s funny… we’re 15 minutes away from two different buildings, and yet have to make a 30 minute trip each Sunday to attend “our ward”.

    I am going to tip my cynical hat here… Are you sure this isn’t because we’ve changed to a two-hour block?

    We also have to drive further for church.

    Our first Sunday there and I get a seminary calling.

    Two months later my husband is called as bishop.

    We knew no one and only brought a few families with us from the other ward.

    Stake kept several people for stake callings and they weren’t there on Sunday. It was awful.

    That said, my children have made the most amazing friends here, so there’s that.

    The 2-hour block. I doubt it. The people coming back have been gone for years. I doubt they had even heard about the changes.

    I’d be interested to see how things shape up for you.

    #334436
    Anonymous
    Guest

    QuestionAbound wrote:


    However, and this is me eating crow, our Sunday school class went from four attending members in the RS room to now we are looking for a larger room to accommodate everybody who is attending. Our SM attendance is growing every week. I’m not sure where these people are coming from (we are new to the area ourselves), but most of them are just coming out of inactivity.

    I’ll just throw this out there because I’ve made a very similar observation where I live: I think this is a side effect of the two hour block. I’m not sure if it was an intended side effect or not. I’m also pretty sure that some who might notice it wholeheartedly believe it is an intended side effect and thus proof it was revelation.

    #334437
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I have heard of the redrawing boundaries thing and smaller units spur growth thing. We even tried it here once. It doesn’t seem to work in areas where the church is not super strong to begin with and/or areas where the geographic boundaries of units are large (both apply to where I live). I also think there was, and maybe still is, a push to have smaller units for a while – instead of wards with 500 members they wanted wards with closer to 300.

    Just for perspective, when I moved to my ward 30 years ago we had many young families and a major local employer that where many of them worked. Our building (new then) was built to house 3 wards. SM attendance approached 200 (over 200 on special days). The next closest meeting house is 30 miles away. They had the same large employer and had two wards. That employer pulled up stakes in the early 90s. The next building now has 1 ward and our ward gets less than 100 on a Sunday.

    #334438
    Anonymous
    Guest

    DarkJedi wrote:


    I also think there was, and maybe still is, a push to have smaller units for a while – instead of wards with 500 members they wanted wards with closer to 300.

    I think you’re right.

    Someone plotted the number of units (stake/district, ward/branch) over the last few years and came up with the following:

    http://www.fullerconsideration.com/units.php” class=”bbcode_url”>http://www.fullerconsideration.com/units.php

    The ‘Daily Count of Wards and Branches’ graph suggests to me that they’ve been promoting lots of branches to wards. The slope of the incline of the number of wards appears to be greater than the slope of the decline of the number of branches, meaning the number of new wards wasn’t exclusively the result of converted branches, but I’d expect that to be the case.

    The ‘Daily Count of Stakes and Districts’ graph is also interesting. The number of districts has remained relatively stable over the last few years but the number of stakes has risen considerably.

    Finally, the ‘Combined Daily Count’ graph that shows data stretching back a few more years than the other graphs. It looks like the combined number of wards and branches grew at roughly the same rate as the combined stakes and districts until 2016, then the number of new wards/branches leveled off a bit and the number of stakes/districts ramped up.

    There are all kinds of variables and ways to interpret but I think this shows that there’s been a recent trend to have fewer wards per stake (on average).

    #334439
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Same house 30 years. Multiple ward changes. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I am praying for doesn’t. I like small wards. Big wards you just get lost in. Oh – wait, maybe that’s what I want. No small, then I know who all the players are, and I know how to navigate.

    #334440
    Anonymous
    Guest

    QuestionAbound wrote:


    The 2-hour block. I doubt it. The people coming back have been gone for years. I doubt they had even heard about the changes.

    Well, there’s gotta be a cause for this effect. People don’t start showing up after years of inactivity, just because. My only other guess, is that their names got on someone’s list, who decided to pay them a visit, and convinced them to come back. Shifting ward boundaries tend to do that. The true test, is how many of those people stay? If they leave, will the SP shift the boundaries again?

    #334441
    Anonymous
    Guest

    True. Sometimes people that have been absent for a long time show up long enough to see who the new BP is going to be when there’s a changing of the guard. People could be showing up to see who all is in their ward after the realignments.

    #334442
    Anonymous
    Guest

    You may see some growth but a concern that I have is you run the risk of losing member too. Members that are low “profile” or come

    sporadically can easily get lost in the shuffle. Recently a member showed up during PH that I haven’t seen in a while. He wanted some

    help with Family History. We talked & it turns out that he belongs in another ward. He & his wife are elderly (about 80). They live within

    (2) miles of our chapel. They are assigned to a ward that is 7 or 8 miles away. It doesn’t make sense to me. There are other members I

    know that live further than that.

    #334443
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The general idea is that really large wards can’t serve members well enough in important ways, and really small wards (or branches) often require too much of the members. Therefore, the ideal is a mid-sized ward in which everyone can serve in some official way without burnout and where callings don’t go unfilled. Generally speaking, that means about 300-500-ish total members and/or 150-200 active members (30-50% activity rate).

    Fwiw, that also is the size that has worked best in most places I have lived over the years.

    #334444
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I like the fact RMN is downsizing some of the organizational structure. Cynics will say this is because of a shrinking church, but I think we haven’t set down roots in some places because it is so labor intensive for a branch to become a ward, and a district to become a stake.

    Utah or even LA can support this kind of framework, with their dense population and many MP holders, but Alaska? Northern Australia? Northern Canada? Russia? Even places in Ireland struggle that way.

    #334445
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I have long felt the reasons for small wards were a cover for simply maximizing their use of buildings. Big Wards need bigger rooms and bigger buildings. Split the big ward into smaller wards,you can stagger meeting times and avoid having to build more chapels.

    The other reasons given a) it gives more people an opportunity to serve b) it spurs growth. These reasons are simply meant to provide apparently benevolent reasons for what is an economic decision.

    I am glad I’m not a fully active leader anymore. It was so tired of always acting alone as a president of an organizaton. Sometimes you’d get one good counselor, for a while, until someone else snapped them up. There is a whole body of literature called the Job Demands and Resources Model…it basically says that when job demands are high, and job resources are also high, you get pressure on employees, but also high levels of motivation. In my experience, the job demands are high on leaders all the time in our church. As part-timers, and volunteers, we have a lot to do. But when you split wards to the bone, you cut the resources. And this leads to stress, frustration and burn-out.

    #334446
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’ll be able to weigh in on this in about six months after our stake completes it’s long-rumored reorganization. It’s being kept very hush-hush as people in my area take their ward association VERY seriously. I’m currently in the lowest population ward, and I would say we are health. I don’t anticipate much change in numbers to my ward. My bishop is also not a part of the study group for the change, so I take that to mean that we will not be greatly affected compared to other wards in our stake. I do know they will be adding a ward back in (they took it away about 13 years ago).

    Apparently there is some software the church has developed that allows stakes to “game plan” various ward boundary configurations with demographic assumptions. All the potential variables make my head hurt.

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