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Hi, I’ve been lurking for awhile too. I have to say I appreciate everyone’s thoughts on here and it had done much to sustain me, but tonight was hard. I’ve been struggling for the last year. The funny thing is, I quit going to church when I was 17, then over the last 5 years my husband and I have worked with various bishops and we were just sealed last summer, us and our children. I worked so hard to get to this spiritual “pinnacle”. Now I find I’m “in the club” so to speak and I’m suffocating. I’ve tried to talk to my husband about it before but tonight, he literally said he wasn’t going to talk about my faith issues anymore because it’s too negative. I get it, he’s worried that I’m suddenly anti, or afraid of what my faith crisis will mean. But what good is religion that disconnects us from communication in our marriage?
I guess I just need to get some things out there. I do believe in a Heavenly Father, and a Heavenly Mother. I believe in Christ. I believe in bringing children up in a way that supports loving others, and being moral. I love service. I love community.
Here’s what gets my goat, being given the cold shoulder in my calling because the president didn’t like that I wouldn’t turn in my receipt. Listening to people gossip about the inactive sister because she doesn’t want to be contacted. Spending hours discussing table cloths, and not acknowledging that we have single struggling mothers, and our time would be much better spent helping them.
It’s not that I expect everyone to be all loving all the time. I did have a great example in my oldest brother, one of the main reasons I came back to the church. He just loved. He loved people who didn’t go to church the same way he loved people who did. I guess that’s what surprised me most, I worked through a lot of my historical issues before going to the temple, but notes being on the other side watching people get overlooked in favor of statistics has been. . . Disheartening. Also the subtle sexist behaviour, from the women!
The idea that I can be so passive aggressively reminded of my place by other women just irks me, and I know I drive them crazy because I don’t play the game.
Anyway, I know this is long, but so is my list of things I need to consider moving forward. Thank you all for being who you are and making me feel like it’s ok to question, it’s ok to not have the answers, and it’s ok to talk about it for crying out loud!
Hi Jaxzmin! Happy to have a new voice in here. We’re all over the spectrum, but I’ve found it’s a wonderful place to bounce ideas and hear a variety of perspectives. I look forward to hearing yours.
Jaxzmin801 wrote:
But what good is religion that disconnects us from communication in our marriage?
IMHO, I think sometimes good marriage requires selective communication. Or at the very least,
tactfulcommunication. I think one of the biggest and most harmful myths of marriage, is that it’s supposed to fill all our needs for emotional support and intimacy. But humans are incredibly complex; everyone has a backstory as deep and conveluted as our own. For every person, there are some things we just don’t want to think about. We frame our reality not by what’s “objectively real”, but by what we need to believe to survive. When someone says or does anything to jepordize those “reality walls”, they can really go on the defensive. I guess what I’m saying is, it’s important to be empathetic and careful.
It sounds like a lot of your struggles have to do with “humans being human”. I get that. I’m not a fan of the statistics game, but for a lot of people, seeing numbers (any numbers) go up gives them courage to carry on. With the judgement, I think it’s because some people aren’t ok with being “not ok”. We often get down on ourselves in the Church, and pointing out the shortcomings in others… well, it’s stupid, but it does help to dull the pain of our own. Sort of like drinking in order to forget that you’re ashamed of your drinking (to paraphrase “the Little Prince”). It drives me nuts at church… but it’s ok to feel frustrated.
Welcome to the group!
Welcome – We can’t wait to hear more from you. Jump in, share, search – You help us grow, too. We nickname this the Island of Misfit Toys. We are glad to add you to our ranks.
Welcome. I know all about the spouse communication complexity. We’re supposed to be eternal companions, but then there are things we can’t talk about or share with each other. :crazy: It does help to come here where we can talk honestly about almost anything. So pull up a chair and relax – we’re open 24/7.Welcome! I’m excited to see what new ideas and point of views you bring to this site. Welcome Jaxzmin801, I like what you said in your intro. Jaxzmin801 wrote:
…I did have a great example in my oldest brother, one of the main reasons I came back to the church. He just loved. He loved people who didn’t go to church the same way he loved people who did.Sometimes, one good example can overcome an entire ward of bad or indifferent examples. You used the word
Quote:did
.
Am I reading too much in your statement?
Keep coming back & contribute. We need your voice.
It all comes down to what is important. We all have our own lists of what is important, and what is not, and which things are more important than others. To the degree we have different experiences, our appraisals will be distinct. And to the degree that we can have new experiences, that appraisal will change over time. The church represents one form of homogenization. To the extent that we share the same experiences in regards to our spiritual beliefs, we will be united in our values. People are often categorized as to whether or not they are a true blue believer, but such a designation doesn’t adequately describe the individual nuances. There is the convert, who after extensive searching finds the pure wonder of the LDS church. I knew a man who converted in his seventies. He appreciated so much what is normally taken for granted. He couldn’t get his fill of the truth; he enrolled in every class at the Institute building. He had been addicted to alcohol and tobacco. He finally found the faith to live without these substances.
Then there are those who are children of converts. They often lack that bolt of lightning that initiates them into their parents’ reality, and don’t see the wonder that their parents saw. Some trust their parents to such a degree that they act in every way like the true convert, without the benefit of the foundational experiences of their parents. It is enough that their parents had the experiences. Too often they are fascinated by the unknown, and follow their curiosity out of the church and into a decandent culture.
Each one of us tries to find our place in society, and the church is a society all its own. The three witnesses had marvelous testimonies of the church and of the Book of Mormon, but they envisioned for themselves better roles in the church, roles beyond just being a witness. They thought they deserved special considerations, and were perhaps a little too full of themselves. Sadly for them, the Lord’s purpose has never been to inflate the egos of the members. Their opinions on church matters were not held in great esteem, and they became offended, and refused to humble themselves.
In the end, humility is the door through which everyone must pass, and the path which everyone must follow thereafter. Those that don’t find humility very satisfying may not prosper in the church.
Thank you all for saying hello, Sometimes, one good example can overcome an entire ward of bad or indifferent examples. You used the word
Quote:did
.
Am I reading too much in your statement?
No, Minyan Man, you are not reading too much into this. My oldest brother passed away about 5 years ago. How he lived his life and his passing are hugely significant to why and what I love about the church and being a member of it. You are right that his example has carried me through some pretty difficult times with being a member. This forum I’d probably the closest thing I have found to being to call him up and say ” hey, what would you do in this situation. . ” so for that I thank all of you.
Hi, Thanks for being here with us.
I can relate on challenges in marriage – it can be very disheartening and tricky. At the end of the day, Charity, Compassion and Courage are your best bet I think. Charity in thought towards your spouse and the women who see things differently, Compassion in action (it might look like you create your own ministry to some of those sisters and spend less time in meetings, it may be connecting to those sisters who you feel are missing the point, it will probably look like something else entirely), and the Courage to center yourself in Jesus Christ in your own way while acknowledging that others will see things differently.
You might want also to look up some of the writings by Chieko Okazaki – she has several thoughts about how to respectfully and compassionately question others to bring more depth to a conversation (which is what I think you are asking for when you contrast the tablecloths with the single sisters). I found her book, “Lighten Up” to be very helpful for me and how I think.
Jaxzmin801 wrote:
I guess I just need to get some things out there. I do believe in a Heavenly Father, and a Heavenly Mother. I believe in Christ. I believe in bringing children up in a way that supports loving others, and being moral. I love service. I love community.Here’s what gets my goat, being given the cold shoulder in my calling because the president didn’t like that I wouldn’t turn in my receipt. Listening to people gossip about the inactive sister because she doesn’t want to be contacted. Spending hours discussing table cloths, and not acknowledging that we have single struggling mothers, and our time would be much better spent helping them.
I
t’s not that I expect everyone to be all loving all the time.
I left church service for the last 5-10 years after too much crap to put up with, like what you mention above. But then I got new crap from the community. It was much easier to handle because the people in the community were not claiming to be part of a divine organization, there was more flexibility to pick and choose what I would do — I wasn’t conscripted like you get in the LDS church.
But it’s there too. It’s everywhere.
So, it’s better to learn to persist and do your best in spite of the arrogance, interpersonal problems, misplaced attention. If it gets to the point it’s causing major interference with your happiness, then make adjustments. It might mean doing your calling well but minimizing meetings. It might mean learning to rock the boat without sinking the ship. It might mean more minimal callings and putting your service into other organizations.
I guess I want to share that these inconsistencies, interpersonal problems, abuses, etcetera — they are everywhere, in every organization.
Not to minimize your angst.
Regarding your husband, I’d leave your faith crises alone with him. My wife is that way too. This site is a great place to develop independent of a spouse, while still staying as connected as possible…
I know this is a different point of view on this, but I have given it some thought and it fits. Perhaps this is really what endure to the end means. From my own experience and perspective, I have endured quite a bit. Welcome Jax, For me it has been helpful to establish boundaries with the church. I reduce the church footprint in my life to what I feel is a sustainable level. We have many friends and activities outside of the church. This allows me to personally acknowledge some frustrating elements in my church experience without having it affect my equilibrium. “Wow, that comment in SS today was crazy judgmental and sexist. I am glad that I am home and that I do not need to think about it for another week.”
I also have a growing and evolving understanding of the gospel which includes to idea that we humans get many things wrong. Prophets, churches, and scripture can all be wrong to some degree. Life can be lived and enjoyed perfectly fine without being right all the time. I like the concept of a continuing restoration because this means that the church was necessarily “less restored” in times past and may have even taken a dead end detour from stuff that matters only to course correct and “repent” later on. This helps me to believe in the church and also see some flaws past and present.
I agree about the sexism part. I do not think that I was ever really aware of male privilidge until I served in primary. I got praised regularly for being a positive male role model and also bringing my priesthood spirit with me to the primary (not a direct quote but that was the gist of it). I am so sorry for the ways in which we hold our female members back. I want my daughter to have the support system and opportunities available through the church program but also to take it all with a grain of salt and refuse to let some of the antiquated ideas define her.
Anyway. Focus on what you do believe. Don’t make any rash decisions. Don’t dump all at once. Don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.
Welcome to our community. You are not alone.
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