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I ran across a really great interview with Rachel Cope, a BYU professor of religion, who talks about her experiences with students who come to her with concerns. Here are a few pulled quotes: Quote:“I had more male students come into my office concerned about gendered temple language and women’s absence from formal roles at Church than I did female students. They had questions about practices that felt wrong and looked wrong to them.”
Quote:“I have found that historical and doctrinal nuance, complexity, and messiness were more disturbing to students several years ago than they are now. Young adults, overall, seem to be more thoughtful and more willing to grapple with ideas. . . Although the young adults I encounter seem to be more aware of problems, they also seem to be more willing to work through them.”
Quote:“I was talking with a student about issues that bother her—many of them tied to women’s place within the church. I listened to her and told her I had also felt hurt by many of the things she had mentioned. She responded, “Just hearing you say that makes me feel better. If there is space for you, there must be space for me, as well.””
Quote:“young adults today have greater access to all kinds of information. . . We might assume that having more information means that we have more answers – but I find that it more likely means we have more questions.”
Quote:“Many young adults tell me . . . they are aware that men are doing the decision-making and leading. They recognize that what men do seems to have more cultural value than what women do. And when people try to convince them otherwise, it only heightens their concerns. We are encountering a different generation, a generation that does not believe in gendered limitations.”
Quote:“Young women don’t want to be told they are better, sweeter, more charitable, more spiritual, or more faithful than men; this reasoning does not satisfy them and it does not convince them. . . I find that many of the young people who are asking questions are returned missionaries. They are church members who are deeply committed, thoughtful, and intelligent. They want to serve, to help, to make a difference. They’re not looking for a way out. They’re looking for a way to stay in.”
I found the interview helpful, and had a few observations:
1) young people really do have a LOT more access to information, right on their phone, than we ever did in the mid-80s when I was a student there. People in my day used to talk with hushed whispers and a knowing eye about the things they read in the Rare Readings Room of the library (if they could get access for a class). Now that information is distilled for them and dissected and re-written in countless easy-to-digest articles.
2) the awareness of gender limitations was there when I was a student, but it’s a bigger deal now because in society women are finally being given space; our leadership is valued in the world and the workplace in ways it was not in the 80s and 90s. It’s much more mainstream.
3) the mission of the impact change (more women serving) is really transformative, but if the church doesn’t figure out how to use this new pool of female talent, they will eventually lose them. It is encouraging that many of these returned missionary women are working to find ways to stay, but ultimately, their role needs to be more important in the church, their talents (and not just uteruses and willingness to bring the cookies) need to become an integral part of the structure, not just an auxilliary.
When I am in Ward Council, I notice that the decision making is more egalitarian than in other areas of the church. It seems like this is a model that the church should be using at all levels with full gender parity (it’s close anyway in our ward). There was an article in the NYTimes today about a scientist who says that he will refuse any more speaking assignments that don’t have diversity represented on the dais because the all-male-panel is a huge problem in the scientific community. It’s also a huge problem in the church, and at BYU.
Do you feel hopeful or hopeless (or somewhere in between) about the current trajectory and pace in the church at getting past the gender limited thinking?
In general the church lags 50 years behind the outside world on a host of issues. I do believe that the pace of change in society and the access to information has increased dramatically. Perhaps RMN saw the writing on the wall and embarked on a whirlwind of administrative changes in response. Maybe he is the right man “for such a time as this.” Thanks for sharing. I have read some stuff from Rachel Cope in the past and she’s definitely one of the good guys. Having had four students at BYU I can say there are more of them than you might think there and that’s a good thing.
hawkgrrrl wrote:Do you feel hopeful or hopeless (or somewhere in between) about the current trajectory and pace in the church at getting past the gender limited thinking?
I’m optimistic and hopeful. I think the pace could be a little quicker (maybe we need to “lengthen our stride” in this regard
Quote:“Young women don’t want to be told they are better, sweeter, more charitable, more spiritual, or more faithful than men; this reasoning does not satisfy them and it does not convince them. . . I find that many of the young people who are asking questions are returned missionaries. They are church members who are deeply committed, thoughtful, and intelligent. They want to serve, to help, to make a difference. They’re not looking for a way out. They’re looking for a way to stay in.”
I’ve given this some thought the past few months after something that was said here piqued my interest. I do hear comments about the sisters being more spiritual or charitable somewhat often. I’m a child of the 60s/70s and I think that’s not a bad thing, but sometimes I wonder if I shouldn’t have been born a little later because, as Cope points out, I’m not necessarily convinced or satisfied by those remarks either and to some extent I’m a bit insulted by it sometimes. (I guess this really relates to the concurrent gender threads as well.) While I don’t doubt that the men who say those things (usually older than me or act older than me – at least generally super orthodox) I always think it sounds disingenuous or sort of like a humblebrag. But I haven’t come up with a good retort yet (suggestions welcome).
Gender equality isn’t an area I expect to see full healing in the church for a long time. DHO stood up in GC and said that women receiving the priesthood won’t happen. There will be changes that are sufficient to show effort, but they won’t result in females in the Q12 or as the prophet in our lifetimes. I believe that that church is responsive to societal trends only when it hits the metrics — baptisms, activity rates, tithing numbers or assets (think plural marriage). We aren’t allowed to voice opinions in movements (a la Kate Kelly) , so the only thing that can be done is scattered, unorganized social media postings. Then hope the leaders at the top will see it and make changes. Just like we saw recent changes to HT, one-year waiting period, two hour church, etcetera.
DarkJedi wrote:
hawkgrrrl wrote:Do you feel hopeful or hopeless (or somewhere in between) about the current trajectory and pace in the church at getting past the gender limited thinking?
I’m optimistic and hopeful. I think the pace could be a little quicker (maybe we need to “lengthen our stride” in this regard
I agree with you DJ. I think most people are reasonable and open to good ideas, as long as it doesn’t directly conflict with doctrine as they perceive it.
However, if the pace of change is too slow…even if on a good trajectory, it may still be falling behind and the gap widening from where it seems they should be.
There is tension between seeing change is happening, and that is good in and of itself, but relative to where change should be, it is also frustrating. So…both sides seem to continue to fight about it. Even still
Sadly, when in situations that are unsuitable, or not changing fast enough, I remove myself from them. I find greener pastures, or sometimes withdraw from the situation for a while. We can’t make our inner peace dependent on the choices of other people we can’t control…Fortunately, we live in a time when we can’t be forced to do many things. And ultimately, we are volunteers in the church; if the pace is too slow, if the things don’t change fast enough, or we feel used or unhappy, we have the ability to make our own choices. And sometimes this is at the expense of our patriarchal church.
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