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This is a springboard from the Porn Addiction? Thread. There is an umbrella organization called Life Changing Services that includes sub groups: “
Sons of Helaman, a sexual self-mastery training program, started in 2005. Sons of Helaman has helped thousands of young men recover from pornography addiction and other sexual related issues. Men of Moroni(men’s equivalent to Sons of Helaman), the WORTH Group(serving women in Betrayal Trauma), and Eternal Warriors Training(Prevention and Self-mastery training).” Also Mothers Who Knowand Daughters of Light
Roy wrote:
Lastly, I have huge concerns with clinical groups that have grown up to serve this need. This reminds me of Evergreen and other Christian groups that had formed to support homosexual conversion therapy. I wonder how much of the normal human sexuality development is being twisted, demonized, and shamed … possibly for profit? I feel that “Life Changing Services” fit into this mold. They advertise to bishops and church leaders. They report receiving referrals from bishops. They seem to benefit from over diagnosing sexual or pornography addiction and then marketing their programs as the treatment. I have very little familiarity with the business model but I foresee red flags and I don’t understand why people in thy psychology and medical fields are not sounding the alarms.
Old Timer wrote:
I have a harsh view of therapeutic approaches that diagnose and label anything that does not meet clinical diagnostic disorder measurements. There is a lot of money in non-clinical treatment, and even well-meaning, sincere people can do a lot of damage if they don’t know what they are doing and end up requiring unique therapy for all actions.
It would appear that what this organization is doing is legal. They require that you be a “licensed Master’s level therapist” in order to lead the support groups for the young men so it seems that there are some credentials there. There are other positions with what looks to be home grown certifications “Personal Warrior Trainer” and “Eternal Warrior Mentor”Quote:If you have any desire to become part of a powerful team of entrepreneurs who work together to bring individuals and families back to Christ by winning the psychological levels of wars with Satan, give us a call! 877HERO877.
Please pass this on to any who wish to join our profession.
– Maurice W Harker, Director
Quote:Is there a way to become a mentor?
We invite all who are interested in becoming Eternal Warriors Mentors and receive further training to be able to teach this program to others. In order to become a mentor you will need to first graduate from an Eternal Warriors Student Class. With a recommendation from your mentor, you’ll be able to be considered to enter the Mentor Certification program.
Quote:All of our mentors are highly qualified and have been certified through the Life Changing Services Learning Institute.
http://www.eternalwarriorstraining.org/become-a-mentor/ Quote:CERTIFICATION FEES
The fee for Certification is $750 per person and can be broken into 4 payments of $187.50.
BEING A CERTIFIED MENTOR
As a certified mentor, you will be able to use the online systems developed to register students and resource your students with all that they need to complete the program.
You will receive the support of our Marketing Team to generate clients but you may also generate clients in any other appropriate manner. Those clients must come through Life Changing Services and be tracked by all of the systems we are putting into place.
Once you have completed your certification training and all of the requirements, you will become a Licensed Partner with Life Changing Services, LLC.
RECERTIFICATION
Once you have certified as a mentor, you will need to re-certify annually to remain licensed to mentor for Life Changing Services, LLC. There is a fee for Re-certification that provides you with a lot of resources and support for generating and managing your clients and with continuous education resources to help you keep your teaching and mentoring skills sharp.
It sounds like “Eternal Warrior Mentors” can lead support groups for Men of Moroni – there are also clinitian led support groups for double the cost.
“Personal Warrior Trainers” appear to be mostly graduates of the program that then go through the proprietary certification program to become Personal Warrior Trainers. They are then assigned to individual “Sons of Heleman” or “Men of Moroni” and act as a sort of helper/motivational buddy. All sons of heleman and men of Moroni are required to receive four $30 and 30 minute Personal Warrior Trainer sessions in the first month and one monthly session thereafter. It is not clear how PWT and/or EWM get paid. They appear to not to be employees of Life Changing Services but “licensed partners”. I suspect that they are contract workers. The mentors must pay to go through the “Eternal Warriors” program as a student, then pay the certification fee, then pay to recertify annually. With all that payment that mentors go through to achieve and keep “Eternal Warrior” status, what is the compensation package? Is this MLM?
Questions:
I assume that this is legal – is it ethical or moral?
Is Maurice W Harker getting rich off of this? Is that ethical or moral? I know John Dehlin has faced some criticism for supporting his family financially through the Mormon Stories Podcast/Foundation. Is there a valid comparison here?
The Life Changing Services are not sponsored or affiliated with the LDS church yet they claim to recieve many referals from bishops. There have been groups in the past like “Evergreen” that worked with LDS homosexuals on “conversion therapy”. What, if any, responsibility does the organizational church have towards groups such as this? Should the church somehow vet the programs? Should the church take steps to distance itself by making some kind of public statement or prohibiting bishops from sending referrals?
Are “Life Changing Services” and the services they provide controversial? Where is the controversy? Are clients happy with the program? How would we know? Are there complaints at the BBB?
Is this discussion appropriate for the main and public forum of StayLDS? Does it help or hinder our mission. I know we have been careful not to denigrate other support and online discussion groups (New Order Mormon). How does Life Changing Services fit into that?
Quote:Is this discussion appropriate for the main and public forum of StayLDS? Does it help or hinder our mission. I know we have been careful not to denigrate other support and online discussion groups (New Order Mormon). How does Life Changing Services fit into that?
What if we put up a disclaimer in the thread. This is hot item button. Many good things turn crappy. Many crappy things bring out good. Life’s paradox is hard to guess sometimes. What we if we crafted a statement about supporting reliable healing, loving our brothers and sisters no matter what, and explaining that we try not to endorse one method over another.
I am very hesitant to post anything that includes mention of specific therapies and groups, since I think that does three things: 1) Border on endorsement of specific for-profit companies; 2) Direct criticism of specific for-profit companies; 3) Encourage people with no formal education, training, or experience in mental health counseling to discuss specific issues in detail. I am okay with general discussions about therapy and LDS culture, but I also would not be able to participate in some ways, given my position and how my comments might be interpreted. We have to stay away from any hint of actual counseling attempts, and that is true even more for me personally.
I’m with Curt. In my mind the jury is out on these programs/therapies and whether or not they really are moral/ethical/effective. I think if I were going to say anything about porn addiction it would be referral to the church site. Not that I think the church site is all kinds of wonderful, but it is somewhat low key and gives the individual choices. Since this is a private discussion, I also will mention that a friend of mine who is a counselor and college professor in Provo told he is deeply concerned about some of these programs. Old Timer wrote:
Since this is a private discussion, Inalso will mention that a friend of mine who is a counselor and college professor in Provo told he is deeply concerned about some of these programs.
Interestingly, my daughter (also a counselor in Provo) and I were discussing porn and some of these organizations were also mentioned in passing. She also has reservations about them. To be clear, she is pretty far off the deep end as far as church belief goes but one of her biggest criticisms besides feminism is the taboo of openly discussing anything sexual in the church even in a counseling setting. She believes there is way too much sex related guilt associated with the church and with these organizations and she believes that to be extremely harmful.
Thank you. The discussion here on the moderator board has helped me to better formulate what to say in the public post without crossing boundaries In summary,
I believe that pornography use is not good for most people, can be habit-forming or addictive, and can be particularly damaging to some vulnerable individuals.
I feel that labeling all porn use as addiction is not helpful. Framing extra-marital arousal as a sickness does a disservice both to natural labido and legitimate mental illnesses and behavioral addictions.
I am personally further dismayed at for-profit therapy organizations that may develop in the shadow of the church’s porn stance to “treat” the “addiction.”
My own well meaning mother brought me to a non-LDS therapist/counselor because of her concerns for my teenage interests in sex. My mother explained to the counselor that in our religion we have a very strict zero tolerance for almost all sexual activities outside of marriage. The therapist explained to my mother that, from his perspective, I was a perfectly normal and healthy teenage boy and that he could not in good conscience take me on as a client under the pretext of “treating” me for arguably developmentally appropriate behaviors. I respect and honor my mother. She did the best that she could. I also owe this counselor a debt of gratitude for pointing out that I was normal. I needed that.
I like following these threads and observing what people share on these topics. I don’t know how some topics get discussed properly. So i don’t know how to jump in. My journey the past decade has made me unsure what are real concerns and what are made up by our culture (shared beliefs). There are no doubt concerns about addictions and deviant behaviors.
But there are experts that disagree on things, and that is more interesting to me than church leaders’ opinions. Porn, to me, is outside the realm of church expertise.
Religion comes in to play when we look at how to behave with love, and have meaning and purpose in life.
It seems these groups are all well-meaning, and some people need support and help, and so the social groups are a good support (like we are for some). But it becomes less than ideal when good intentions are clouded with meaning church people place on things, and of course, past generations of “prophets” who placed strong words on things not well understood. Couple that with faith that people want the religion to provide “universal truth” on every aspect of life, and it is a dangerous concoction and not healthy for everyone, even if for some.
It seems better for financial experts to guide us on investments, medical experts to guide us on health advice, and psychology experts to guide us on mental health, and sex-experts to guide us on sexual issues. Church leaders and programs can be there for spiritual elements (which touch on several things in life, but not all).
Therefore…leave this stuff outside of church. Including Porn. The more we talk about it in the wrong context (ie. stories such as the devil tempts us with porn, or the Greek Gods that have initiation rituals of orgies and the such, etc.) the more we conflate issues and miss the mark in finding peace for issues in life that cause us suffering.
I just don’t know. So I observe what others have to say that know more than I do.
Overall, I agree we should leave it off our website, since we are unsure about these groups. It would be better we share experiences about them, and keep it to opinions, not endorsements, as others are saying.
Those are my thoughts (and rambles).
You are all awesome people. I appreciate all you do.
I personally see similarities between faith based businesses that treat porn addiction and those that promoted conversion therapy (there are also some differences). I find it interesting that the founder of one such conversion therapy group has come out as gay and issued an apology. I feel bad for the guy. He had such self loathing that he created an organization dedicated to helping gay individuals rid themselves of their gayness. All the while, he was secretly gay. I saw that and also felt for him. I can’t understand fully that sort of pain.
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