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* That is a lot – thank you for finding the courage to share it with us. I am not an expert by any means, but here is my 2 cents worth on potential next steps.
A) I would budget the money and handle the child care arrangements so that you can take her to the bishop’s office for the interview – whenever that is. I would take her to get some food or ice cream just the 2 of you before or after it – however the logistics settle out. Take her as a friend, as someone you care about – not for heavy subjects. To make it happen, she would have to tell you what date/time it is (so you are still in the loop). The day or morning of, I would let her know that you are wiling to present your point of view/meet with the bishop as well (mostly along the lines of what you mentioned you were striving for in this post), but that you are willing to bow to her judgement in this area.
Find Find Meaningful Common Spiritual Ground – Maybe go hiking or find something to participate in together spiritually right now. She needs to see/be reminded that you have spiritual beliefs in common rather than go down the path of focusing on what is not in common anymore (it sounds like she is reacting to your faith transition at the same time as dealing with the after-effects of an abortion, and a minimally processed rape). In reading between the lines, she is craving spiritual support (hence the drive to get a temple recommend cleared) and is not sure that she can/should rely on you spiritually as well as whatever else she is doing for herself spiritually.My opinion: A) Support her in the way that she wants to be supported. This will likely mean subverting your own ego in many areas. I would let her know that you need to be involved and you want to be supportive but that you need direction on what that best might look like for her. If she is determined to go to the bishop and have a counsel then go with her and support her etc.
Let her know that you love her and that you do not hold her responsible – to the degree that she may have made choices that contributed to putting herself in that situation in hindsight and that she may be benefited by forgiveness – you can forgive her.I actually have a bit of a theory here. I lost a child and held myself responsible for not being able to protect them. I did not make a mistake per se. I just was not all powerful and all knowing enough and my child paid the price. This was difficult for me. I had clearly failed in my duty as a father to provide and protect – but my failure was such that the repentance process that I was familiar with was unhelpful.
Your spouse MAY (I, of course, can only speculate) feel somewhat similar. It is complicated because she did not consent to major portions of what occurred but she still has gone through a trauma and needs to heal/feel forgiven/acceptance from God. Going through with bishop confession and eventually receiving a TR is a major way to do that (feel forgiven/acceptance) in the LDS church.
For me personally, I found great comfort in the doctrine of grace as it is taught in many protestant Christian churches today. The idea was that I was never intended to be strong enough to bend my destiny and the destiny of those around me to my will. I am insufficient and I will always be insufficient. God accepts me in my insufficiency and has set in place the atonement to cover me with his loving grace. I needed forgiveness for not being enough and I found it. Period – The end. I understand that our situations are different and this may or may not be helpful to your wife.
C) Continue to push for counseling. It sounds like you have both been hurt and continue to hurt. We are a good support group as far as anonymous internet support groups go but we have serious limitations. Go to counseling together/ go to counseling apart – but go!
May God bless each of you individually and your struggling marriage. I am so sorry for your pain.
* * There is a weird piece I am missing. Before I give thoughts – how long have you been in faith transition? How did you handle your disclosure to her? How have you been navigating it in your home? The answers may point to some of the issues that brought you to this point as a couple.
* adviceforums123 wrote:
I hope that my wife will some day read your post, though she is not keen on learning of the reactions from the forums currently (she did consent to me posting for my own benefit/understanding).
I do not think it would be helpful to push any reactions upon her. My own wife knows that I post here and that I sometimes mention her, if she wanted to read my posts then she could. She mostly chooses not to. I cannot imagine that she would ever welcome advice that was given online about any difficulties she may face. I just do not see a happy ending for the sentence, “anonymous internet person thinks you should do this.” Even self help books like “seven habits of highly effective people” can create unhelpful division when one spouse wants to implement the advice and the other spouse feels resentful. Also giving your spouse a self help book as a gift may not go well… don’t ask me how I know this.😆 adviceforums123 wrote:
She again brought up to me the issue of celestial marriage…I don’t have a good answer for this one. Strictly speaking w/o a temple recommend one’s eternal salvation is in question according to the doctrine. [snip] I’m not sure how much the eternal salvation requiring celestial marriage with ongoing temple recommends weighs on her—I know it is a factor.
I am committed to a celestial marriage. I am determined that my family will be together forever by sheer willpower and love. Watch the movie, “What dreams may come” for a good example. Priesthood sealings are a nice ratification of what we already have. A celestial marriage and eternal family is made by us – primarily in creating a family where individuals might WANT to connect for eternity. I have not had a TR in 10 years (almost exclusively due to tithing). I talk to my wife and children about being together forever but our focus is on living this life in a meaningful and loving way. Also, I do not think it is technically doctrine that an active TR equates to eternal salvation, celestial marriage, and exaltation. It seems fairly easy to get a TR even without being all that good of a person. I cannot imagine that God would ask for our slips of paper before we may enter the pearly gates.
adviceforums123 wrote:
My formal disclosure was 3 years ago, and the motivating factor related to timing was whether I was going to baptize my oldest child. It was causing me significant cognitive dissonance/feelings of hypocricy/superficiality.
I have baptized my living children even without a TR. I do not believe that it washes away sin or anything magical like that but it is an important life marker and serves as an outward display of an inward decision to follow the example of Jesus Christ. For me it is meaningful that I can be involved in such important events in my children’s lives. I assume that my wife also takes comfort in this – for example she organizes the annual father’s blessings before the new schoolyear. Nobody asks her to do this so I assume it is important to her. I wonder how much of these traditions you could partake in for purely parental reasons that have nothing to do with priesthood authority etc.adviceforums123 wrote:
Yes, you are clearly both hurting. I think you may enjoy the song and music video “Broken Together” by Casting Crowns. The message has been meaningful in my life and marriage.Quote:“Broken Together” by Casting Crowns
Can we have a video binge party? Two of my favorites are “You Say” and “Rescue” by Lauren Daigle.
So AF123 – I appreciate you letting us arm chair counsel you.
First of all, mega hugs to both of you.
Second, I am with Amy and I know Roy is on the same thing in his marriage – finding/building common spiritual ground. A key human error is to live in our worries and fears. The more time we spend there. The more the fears and worries grow.
Third, – what is thriving in your marriage and home life? Spend time on that. Thinking about it. Working with it. Whatever it is. Do you watch a favorite show together? Have hobbies you like to do together? Is there special time – even just sitting and having dinner. Or buying 2 tubs of ice cream and eating them in a parking lot.
Fourth – both of you start forgiving yourselves. For any and all of it. Even if you weren’t born into this church or having this faith transition, marriage is tough. It’s great. But it also works on the deepest, darkest, crustiest parts of our souls.
Fifth – Piggy backing on Roy’s comments – there is a lot you can do around the temple that may support her best. Encourage her to go. Most RS have set aside days. Volunteer to do the parent thing and let her go. Let her tell you about it with no weirdness from you. Just listen. If you can find it in you, go with her but don’t go inside. Sit and meditate. Take some spiritual literature and read while she attends. Try to look at the Temple like a Buddhist Center. Just be chill.
Sixth – Plan a bright future together. Write down your happy dreams. Places to vacation together. Activities you want to try. “If you build it. It will come.”
My final piece of advice to you (remember advice is free, no purchase required) – get off reddit. If the thread I have read from you is any indication – your marriage means more to you than your church. Choose her, every time.
I know how reddit threads go. Trust me, it will only add to your angst and confusion.
This obstacle is a gift. It’s a chance for you to look deep inside and select what is most important to you.
Take time off from online world. Sit in stillness and listen to your truth. Start looking for ways to be love in this story.
You are the tool that changes the outcome of this situation.
We believe in you.
I am commenting late, but I want to emphasize what Mom3 just said: 1) Get off reddit.
There is some good in various places, but there is so much negativity in most. From my experience working with people who spend significant time there, it rarely goes well.
2) Adam chose a life of trouble and pain with Eve over a life of ease and peace with God. They chose to keep God as an important part of their new life, but they added God to THEIR life. It was an equal prioritization; they came first, with faith God would accept that and be there in the end.
I believe that is a parable for us, and I believe too many people, including members of the LDS Church, miss that simple, original framing of life.
3) Find and focus on what brings you joy.
If you can do so within the LDS Church, great. If that is what you want, we will support you in your effort. If not, we will support you in trying to find peace and charity in your journey.
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