Room in the Church for Non-believers?

It’s not about the LDS church, but I found it pretty interesting and it relates to one of the main questions I currently have about my place in the church. I’ve been wondering if there’s any place in the church for someone like me who is past the doubting stage and now does not believe. There has been some talk about people with questions and doubts but what about people who no longer have questions, but have new beliefs or conclusions? Is there a place for us in the church if we no longer have even a “desire to believe”?

So, is there room in our church for non-believers? People who don’t need answers or faith, but just friendship and community? Do you think the church leadership recognizes that there are non-believers who still want to participate for other reasons? If so, is there any desire to make it more welcoming for those who do not believe, and remain non-believers?

In my opinion (and that’s all it is), as long as the ward members know you no longer believe, they may be accepting of you and even friendly, but you will always be a potential “project” for someone. The members will always be hoping that you’ll see the light and their interactions with you will be influenced by that hope. I wish that weren’t how it is, but I believe that’s pretty much the case.

So, is there room in our church for non-believers? People who don’t need answers or faith, but just friendship and community? Do you think the church leadership recognizes that there are non-believers who still want to participate for other reasons?

Good questions and lots to consider.

From what I’ve seen I think there’s room for people.

Ward members are usually accommodating and friendly towards non-believing non-members (part member families, visitors, etc.). That said, I think non-members are a special case; the relationship is still in the courting phase.

Many non-believing members are afraid of coming out. Having to hide belief is not indicative of a welcoming environment.

We still talk about doubting and non-believers as needing to be fixed, implying that the doubter is in a less desirable state. This mindset gets instilled/reinforced from the top (general conference).

I don’t think the church knows what to do with non-believing members. Earlier I said there’s room for people but I’d need some qualifiers. People in the ward may be nice and welcoming but if a non-believer can’t hold certain callings, if they feel like a project, if they are barred from full participation in the community (weddings, ordinances, etc.) is there still “room” for them? Technically I’d say yes, because rooms have corners, but does a person feel welcome if they’re in a corner?

I think both sides (active and inactive) might have a hard time understanding why a non-believer would want to participate. Maybe step one is education. Help the active/orthodox side understand why a non-believer would want to participate and then they can start to make room for them.

I think a good start might be recognizing that non-believers do exist in the church, and make an effort to explicitly say “you are welcome here too” in a conference talk or something (Uchtdorf, maybe?).

I think we need to get rid of the rhetoric about “apostates” and “denying the Holy Ghost”. A lot of members seem to be afraid of people who have lost their faith, thinking that they will be trying to tear down their faith as well. Members need to see that not all people who lose their faith are out to tear down the church.

The temple is an issue, with several recommend questions being about testimony. And not going to the temple excludes you from weddings (and marriage if you’re single).

Also, not all activities need to be church-centered. Sometimes it seems people try to force spirituality on normal activities like camping trips by turning them into a devotional. There’s nothing wrong with having a devotional, but it’s also perfectly ok to have activities that are just for fun.

One thing that could help is to have more community service projects. You don’t need any sort of religious belief to do service, but it also fits well with the religious message for the believers as well. It is easy to see how believers and non-believers could come together with activities like volunteering at a food bank or soup kitchen. That could create a common ground for anyone to participate and feel like they can contribute.

That’s at least what I would like to see from the church.

Also, not all activities need to be church-centered. Sometimes it seems people try to force spirituality on normal activities like camping trips by turning them into a devotional. There’s nothing wrong with having a devotional, but it’s also perfectly ok to have activities that are just for fun.

Yeah, I’ve had a few leaders that were ultra-focused on every activity having a “gospel purpose.” It usually translated into an activity boiling down to a sales pitch.

Getting together and enjoying one another’s company. Is there anything more gospel than that?

I feel that our business model is different. I believe that we rely on the strength of people’s passionate agreement with our doctrinal positions (testimony) to get them to endure a less than comfortable environment. We are big on duty and sacrifice. Given that a good number of members would themselves choose to spend their time elsewhere if they were not believers, they can become confused if other non-believers choose to spend their time with us.

It is true that even a lot of believing members do not seem to enjoy the church programs that much. I’ve often heard people talk about how hard it is to stay motivated to go to church, how easy it is to fall into temptation and go inactive, etc. Doing callings out of a sense of duty, even though it’s something they really dislike. I wish the church leaders would recognize that maybe it’s not just a problem with “temptation” that causes people to be less than enthusiastic about church programs, maybe the programs are in need of improvement. But like you said, we’re big on duty and sacrifice, so we have the attitude of if you don’t like something, you just need more faith so put your shoulder to the wheel and do it anyway.

I think the church might be more successful reaching out to groups like young people that they are losing if they actually made an active effort to make their programs enjoyable.

Many of the church programs don’t have much to offer the non-believer. If you don’t believe people need every temple ordinance to be saved there’s less desire to participate in temple activities. If the ministering program centers around checking up on how people are coming along with the stake president’s goal or if it centers around giving a lesson in something that you don’t believe in there’s less desire to participate.

I think back to my YSA days. It was a different era, much has changed since then, but I remember really enjoying church. I don’t remember there being much structure to social gatherings. We didn’t meet to watch a video on the restoration and discuss how we should be handing out BoMs, simply being together and enjoying one another’s company was all the gospel purpose we needed.

See, even I remember things being different only 10 years ago or so. Part of that is because I lived in New England, where the church culture was really different. Maybe I just need to get out of Utah :think: But even then, my ward back then was fairly unique and had a reputation for being the “party ward” because of all of our fun cultural activities (it was also probably one of the most racially and culturally diverse wards in the church). We had the “churchy” things, but they were balanced by going out to eat, playing video games together, celebrating cultural holidays for the various nationalities in our ward, etc.

I think the leadership has been pushing to have everything gospel centered recently at the expense of fun. For example, I’ve heard seminary students now have to take exams. It used to just be hanging out with a bit of gospel message, and even non-members from our high school would show up sometimes because it was fun. And as a current YSA, I would really appreciate some fun activities instead of the ongoing lecture series on dating, marriage, and porn.

Sometimes it feels like the church has given up on the non-believing or less-committed members to focus on catering to the people who are already super committed and will do any program no matter how boring or uninteresting. Maybe it’s a “defensive” posture nowadays trying to hold on to the core membership instead of reaching out to people on the fringes or potential new members.

Just as an example, my current bishopric all know that I believe there’s no God, but that I also believe in the goodness of the Church generally, and in the New Testament in particular. And, even with all that knowledge, they treat me just like anyone else. They are each friendly toward me, welcoming of me, and have never made me a project. Under this current bishopric, I have been asked to speak in SM and I have had a calling as a SS teacher (both on NT topics, which I love and respect). Apparently, there is room for this Atheist.

I think there are leaders and wards like yours, and perhaps in these times they’re more common that many think. I think I’m well tolerated (which may not be the right word) in my ward. I agree that it’s not as much a “church” problem as a member problem, including those of us who are not all in. I think there are intolerant members and leaders though. On the other hand, I need to keep in mind that it’s me that changed and not the church or its doctrine (policy is a different story, and I have embraced the policy changes and hope for more). I should also not expect the old school/old guard to change on account of me, but I hope they can see that there is room for those that don’t think/believe in the same way they do.