The Mark of the Beast

Some speculate that the vague references in Revelations are more related to the environment at the time Revelations was written as opposed to something that was making predictions about future events.

The number of the beast: in some translations the number is 666, in others it is 616. Scholars theorize that this may have been gematria, creating a way to speak about Nero covertly. The theory is that the Greek for Nero equates to 666 and the Latin for Nero equates to 616, accounting for the two different numbers that have been found on various manuscripts.

The mark of the beast may have referred to Nero being stamped on all monies or it may have referred to the economic power of Rome in general. The “mark” may have also referred to libelli, a piece of paper that certified that someone had made sacrifices to pagan gods. Sacrificing to pagan gods was a sin for Christians so the libelli was a way to test whether someone was more loyal to Christianity or to the Roman empire. Possession of a libelli may have been used to control things like the right to buy and sell in the Roman empire.

Even if the references in Revelations were historical history repeats itself. Maybe the warning is more about the corruption that comes with any entity that becomes all powerful (government, banks, churches, etc.).

I think church leaders do talk about these things, just not in terms of “mark of the beast.” Any time leaders talk about the world becoming more and more wicked they are relaying similar concepts. Don’t sacrifice your beliefs by capitulating to something that the world requires of you just so you can fit in with the world.

It can be a good principle but IMO the instruction is so vague that it can foster an us vs. them mentality. There’s bad in the world but there’s also a lot of good. Unfortunately we sometimes dig in our heels against the world when the world is attempting to teach us a better way. Attitudes towards race come immediately to mind.

This is an interesting topic. I have only one question: how does this relate to the purpose of this site?

The purpose, I thought was:

StayLDS.com is an independent community of LDS Church members who desire to help other

LDS Church members who have experienced a trial of faith find a way to remain participating members if it is their desire to do so.

If I’m missing the point, please tell me.

It is about scripture so is relevant. We hear continually about the 144,000 and the Millennium, and historic persecution, so we should discuss this too.

But the whole business of implanting people is already here. Several companies require their employees to get them for security clearance. Whatever you make of the connection between this and Rev. 13 – even if you consider it hogwash/a false connection, you should be very concerned about these currents emerging in our society, which will destroy our personal freedoms.

This isn’t an issue we should be ducking but it is one which is never discussed in church. So yes, I do think this is a challenge to my faith. Why don’t supposed living prophets ever bring it up?

While I personally don’t think Revelations is talking about modern technology, there is a lot that could be said about the role of technology in eroding personal freedom. I think church leaders don’t talk about it much because they don’t really understand technology. And honestly, I kind of prefer it when they don’t talk about things they don’t understand. Church leaders rarely speak out about major societal/political issues, but when they do it often doesn’t work out so well (Civil Rights movement, LGBT issues, etc).

I think the driving force behind newer payment systems is convenience, not control. Yes, it is problematic when there are no or few alternatives, it leaves people in a lurch when systems break down, but the typical response when a system breaks down is a scramble to bring the payment systems back online as soon as possible lest people take their business elsewhere.

I’m not sure what church leaders would council in this situation. Don’t use banks? Be sure to carry some cash with you?

I think the driving force behind newer payment systems is convenience, not control.

I’d be more convinced if I hadn’t heard of such systems being developed back in the nineties. I suppose cheques were the first in this line (bills maybe too), then credit cards. This stuff has all been planned ahead by banks and tech companies. The trick has been to try and persuade the public into it.

The customer does derive some convenience, but:

* The marketer gains data on who buys what.

* The welfare people know who gets money from elsewhere.

* The tax people would be delighted to.

* You can’t really buy drugs or illegal arms with cashless payment unless you have a good cover or use barter.

* The government and debt agencies can stop someone’s cashflow in an instant (sometimes good, sometimes not so good, depending on who they do it too).

I’m not sure what church leaders would council in this situation. Don’t use banks? Be sure to carry some cash with you?

There is another church related problem here. If the government has access to all your payments that could be a problem with tithing.

The flipside is that the church might have greater financial transparency…

I know sometimes welfare agencies insist on looking at bank statements right now. I’m not high waged, and so my tithing is not high either. However, if I was on welfare, and decided to pay tithing etc above my 10% direct from my account then the tax authorities might think I have undeclared income or was not paying enough tax! As a matter of privacy, I pay my tithing and donations in cash.

If you are on welfare, they will sometimes ask for access to bank statements. I can see a scenario where someone’s church donations are high, and the welfare people would say “how can you afford this?” or assume income was coming in from elsewhere. Tax authorities can be similarly invasive.

That said, and addressing the bigger issue of privacy as related to the mark of the beast, Google knows way more about you than you can imagine – and they do share with the government.

That why they pay so little tax. They pay in kind.