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February 26, 2020 at 12:25 am #212841
Anonymous
GuestBYU recently changed the Honor Code in a significant way – moving “homosexual behavior” from the prohibitions. Sexual activity now is treated equally, with same-sex hand holding, kissing, etc. allowed just like those activities among heterosexual students. By extension, bi-sexual activity fits within the new standard. Also, of note, investigations no longer may be generated by student OR ecclesiastical concerns/suspicions. The new Handbook changes regarding transgender members follow similar lines. Reassignment surgery no longer triggers excommunication or disfellowshipment; transgender individuals may be baptized and hold callings; etc.
I would like to see more, but these are huge changes.
I hope the members “follow the Prophet” on this one.
February 26, 2020 at 10:59 pm #338797Anonymous
GuestI recently got back on to Twitter and saw a lot of posts regarding saving byu etc. Not having attended I didn’t have the same feeling of nostalgia for the way things were or changes. Hopefully there will be some middle ground for people on both sides.
February 27, 2020 at 4:23 am #338798Anonymous
GuestI’ve seen mostly positive reactions from other students so far. Though many are disappointed that the change had nothing to do with beards. February 27, 2020 at 3:21 pm #338799Anonymous
GuestI admit that at first I was skeptical and I didn’t fully see what BYU was saying. The handbook itself is quite vague on the subject but BYU is being more descript IMO. I’m glad for the changes and hope the more conservatives (especially the more militant ones) can see their way to letting progress happen. I have children at BYU. This is just a point of interest, I suppose, but one of them has an openly gay professor and they discussed this and other handbook changes in class. When my oldest started at BYU 10 years ago this would never have happened.
February 27, 2020 at 11:03 pm #338800Anonymous
GuestThis is a good change! February 28, 2020 at 11:33 pm #338801Anonymous
GuestBYU as an institution is under pressure to have an official non-discrimination policy. (BYU-I, BYU-H, and Ensign College haven’t felt this pressure, yet.) This pressure is coming from accreditation bodies as well as grad schools and employers who discount the value of a BYU undergraduate degree. Therefore, the institution is now “officially” non-discriminatory. However, every student still has to get an ecclesiastical endorsement every year from their respective bishops. In effect, the university has delegated the policing of LGBTQ students from the honor code office to the bishops of student wards. Some of those bishops will be decent human beings and others will be complete jerks. Leadership roulette at its finest.
February 29, 2020 at 4:34 pm #338802Anonymous
GuestThat might be true, but removing the official restriction means it is okay to be openly non-heterosexual at BYU. That means no ecclesiastical leader will be able deny an endorsement based on, “You can’t be you there. It is against the rules.” Yes, roulette still is in play, but now a leader has to disregard policy to withhold an endorsement – and they can’t use sexual or gender orientation as a legitimate policy reason. That is an important aspect of the change.
March 4, 2020 at 10:36 pm #338803Anonymous
GuestThis was so poorly rolled out and walked back. I am wondering if the Church did not think that LGBTQ students at BYU would take it this far and would be more discreet or that they would keep the status quo and the Church would get some PR points and take less heat from recruiters and other universities. It seemed like everyone was totally unprepared to answer basic questions about affection and dating and everyone scrambled to come up with a roll back “clarification” several weeks after the toothpaste was out of the tube. I fear this will do much more PR harm than good in the long run and is going to further alienate many BYU students and progressive Church members.
March 4, 2020 at 11:20 pm #338804Anonymous
GuestI think it will bring more bad PR than if they would have just left it alone. I did hear there was a small number of students that were adamant “this isn’t right!!!”. Those individuals are going to be even more emboldened.
March 5, 2020 at 4:31 am #338805Anonymous
GuestTo say I am disappointed by the recent statements about the policy would be an understatement. Literally, the policy changed. It didn’t need a doctrinal clarification. It was a University policy. It would have been fine if it conflicted with someone’s idea of what the current doctrine is.
All-or-nothing mindsets drive me crazy. Let there be some gray.
March 5, 2020 at 1:56 pm #338806Anonymous
GuestIt looks like my initial skepticism actually had some validity. I am sadly vindicated. My son at BYU forwarded my the letter from Paul Johnson CES commissioner yesterday. I can’t copy and paste from it because in case people haven’t noticed this before the church loves to send things like this as picture files making it harder to cut and paste (it is possible but it’s a process I don’t have time to go through at the moment). Here are a couple articles, both of which quote from the letter: https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2020/03/04/after-byu-honor-code/ ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.sltrib.com/news/education/2020/03/04/after-byu-honor-code/ https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/3/4/21163585/byu-honor-code-lds-mormon-church-gay-marriage-lgbtq ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/3/4/21163585/byu-honor-code-lds-mormon-church-gay-marriage-lgbtq There is also a Q&A linked in the email to students:
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/3/4/21163585/byu-honor-code-lds-mormon-church-gay-marriage-lgbtq ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/3/4/21163585/byu-honor-code-lds-mormon-church-gay-marriage-lgbtq I can quote from that:
Quote:…any same-sex romantic behavior is a violation of the principles of the Honor Code.
I have several thoughts and feelings:
First and foremost I am very sad and disappointed at how this raised some hope then squashed it like a bug practically in the next breath.
Second, I think this has DHO’s fingerprints all over it.
Third I think it no coincidence that this was issued the day after RMB spoke at the Provo devotional (with a message of love) so as not to cause the uproar before that.
Fourth, as already stated, I am sad I was right about this. That’s not the end of that though because part of my original skepticism was that bishops would be dealing with these issues instead of the honor code office anyway – and I think this emboldens both bishops and the honor code office. FWIW, my son did tell me that the honor code office still won’t take accusations/reports from other students or staff regarding LGBTQ behavior. That doesn’t mean bishops won’t.
Lastly I’m sad for these generations who are already finding the church less relevant and this is just another nail in that coffin, those who are LGBTQ and have been directly affected by this whiplash, and those of us who truly try to love our neighbors as the Savior did.
March 5, 2020 at 2:02 pm #338807Anonymous
GuestI typed up the text of that letter and posted it in a different thread. Here it is: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESSM07nVAAEnII3?format=jpg&name=large ” class=”bbcode_url”> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ESSM07nVAAEnII3?format=jpg&name=large Quote:March 4, 2020
To students, faculty, and staff of the Church Educational System:
Recently the language of the principle-based Church Educational System Honor Code was updated. Those adjustments included significant doctrinal and behavioral matters that have led to much discussion and some misinterpretation. Out of respect for all concerned, we are providing the following clarifying statement.
One change to the Honor Code language that has raised questions was the removal of a section on “Homosexual Behavior.” The moral standards of the Church did not change with the recent release of the
General Handbookor the updated Honor Code. There is and always has been more to living the Lord’s standard of a chaste and virtuous life than refraining from sexual relations outside of marriage. Lasting joy comes when we live the spirit as well as the letter of God’s laws. A foundational doctrine of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ is that “marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children” (“The Family: A Proclamation to the World”). Church leaders have long taught these principles.
Same-sex romantic behavior cannot lead to eternal marriage and is therefore not compatible with the principles included in the Honor Code.
We are grateful for the commitment that all students and employees in the Church Educational System make to live the principles and spirit of the Honor Code.
Sincerely,
[signed]
Elder Paul V. Johnson
Commissioner, Church Educational System
March 6, 2020 at 11:29 pm #338808Anonymous
GuestI don’t know what they were thinking with this, going about confusing everybody. Even though only a small number of students are actively protesting, people are talking about it. I think for many this “misunderstanding” is further evidence that the honor code is not inspired. -
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