Latest article on church finances

It’s hard to come up with something new to say, especially something that doesn’t get me roiled up, but…

You said so yourself SD, “had to file something.” From the article:

The SEC filing is standard for institutional investment managers with assets of at least $100 million but while the church has met that threshold for years, the SEC website does not show any earlier filings by Ensign Peak Advisors.

Something tells me that this would have been another year where the SEC website wouldn’t have shown any filings if the cat were still in the bag. Church history, finances, handbooks. In my opinion secrecy until compelled to be open is an unfortunate pattern that only erodes trust.

The church said last year that it has provided $2.2 billion worth of assistance to 197 countries since 1985, including cash, commodities and in-kind donations.

Again, dead horse, but $2.2 billion worth of assistance. I was told there would be no math, but…

Some estimates value one hour of service at $25.43. I’ll round that down to $25/hour.

If the $2.2 billion since 1985 were service hours only:

$2,200,000,000 divided by $25/hour = 88,000,000 hours of service

The statistical reports in 1985 show that there were about 6 million members. To simplify this, I will stick with that number. There are currently over 16 million members, but not all are active, so I think using 6 million is fair enough.

88,000,000 hours divided by 6,000,000 members = 14 hours, 40 minutes of service per member.

So the $2.2 billion could just as easily mean that every member did about 15 hours of service over a thirty five year period.

I should have been a lot more precise. I apologize for that. It happens more often when I am rushing. I was reacting to the idea of figuring out how much time per member it would take for the entire amount to be from volunteer hours – and I truly rushed my comment due to limited time. Again, I apologize for that. I will delete the original comment, since it was botched so badly and try again now, since I have time to slow down.

Calculating the entire amount being from volunteer time is meaningless, since we know there has been extensive financial outlay of actual goods through both disaster relief and welfare assistance. Market value for the commodities given through fast offerings alone, over 35 years, has to be massive.

I don’t know the percentage breakdowns, but what I meant to say is that completely unrealistic calculations of impossible scenarios aren’t productive and can be highly misleading, even if they aren’t intended that way. I know your heart is in the right place, but I have seen unrealistic calculations used by others to show how miserly the LDS Church is compared to other churches – when, in fact, the numbers actually show nearly identical giving on a per capital basis when examined more closely.

Bottom line for me: I don’t like unrealistic, theoretical calculations. People tend to remember them and miss the fact that they are completely unrealistic – even when that is stated clearly and directly, as you did in your follow-up comment. It is easy for some people to read the original comment and walk away thinking the entire amount might have come from service hours only.

One of the articles mentioned how the $38 billion was publicly traded holdings by just Ensign Peak Advisors and that the figure didn’t include investments in private companies or properties. That statement also leaves the possibility that there are other groups that manage publicly traded holdings.

An example of a private companies would be the church owned Beneficial Life Insurance Company. Google says that at the end of 2013 that company had assets worth $3 billion. Then there’s the $2 billion City Creek Mall.

Still, the difference between $38 billion and (some speculated) up to $120+ billion is very large. There’s not much more than speculation, but most of the speculation I’ve read also claimed that the $100-120 billion figure didn’t include church real estate (church buildings and the properties they sit on). Though I don’t know how anyone could know for sure. The starting number is speculative.

There could be a difference between real estate dedicated to worship (chapels, temples, etc.) and real estate where business is conducted. Perhaps the estimated $120 billion figure only includes properties reserved for business. For example:

I found some news articles from 2013 that reported on how the church became the largest land owner in Florida at close to 670,000 acres. That was 2013, it could be more or less than that today. Point is, land isn’t cheap… and it’s a good investment.

And there’s always cash. If it truly is a reserve, I’d imagine that some of it has to be cash. If something comes up, there’s cash available. No need to sell stocks or whatever to deal with more immediate needs.

My understanding was that the 100 billion figure came from the securities holdings (stocks and bonds) of Ensign Peak. I knew that the church also had large land holdings that were not part of this figure. I do also acknowledge that this does not include private church owned companies (something that I had not put much thought into before). I also recognize that the church may have other such companies that invest a portion of their money. However, if Ensign Peak is the largest such company then it still seems that an estimate of 100 billion or more for just stocks and bonds holdings may be too high.

For me, I wonder if the 100 billion figure set my expectations (and outrage) too high. A 38 billion figure seems much more reasonable by comparison – even if it still isn’t reasonable from a church/charitable org. perspective. The 38 billion figure makes me feel rather “meh” about the whole thing. :yawn: