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Hi All! I am very happy to finally be posting after lurking on this forum for around five years. I’ve read most posts and I’m so grateful for those who’ve posted. I’ve found answers to my questions and wonderful perspectives. I don’t remember what it was that finally made me do it, but about five years ago I felt in despair and I typed in google search “How do I stay LDS?” I remember being so scared because I didn’t want to go to an antimormon website, but I saw this forum and decided I’d give it a shot. And I’ve been grateful for it since. I was born into the LDS church. My dad’s parents joined the church when he was young and he followed suit. And my mom joined when she was a young teenager – by herself. My parents are not from Utah, Idaho, or anywhere else that has a high LDS population. My siblings and I continued that way. I grew up in the LDS church as a strong believer and follower. For so long, I saw doctrine and right and wrong as black and white. By no means was I a “perfect member” as a kid. I fought with my siblings and got in neighborhood fights defending my siblings (the whole idea of “I can be mean to my siblings, but you can’t.” haha. ) But I paid attention a lot at church and I wanted to be perfect. I read the book of Mormon by the time I was 10 years old and read it repeatedly for many years after. and I soaked up all the young women’s lessons about being married and being married in the temple. I followed the law of chastity rules as a teenager and single adult. I didn’t smoke, drink alcohol, or do drugs either. I wanted to please God. And though I thought black and white about right and wrong for my life, interestingly I always had several friends in the church who broke all the lds rules (as a teenager and in college). Sadly, there were times when I did judge them. I’m not proud of that.
Interestingly, I started having problems with the lds church when I received my endowment a week before I was married. There was so much hype about the temple growing up in the church, but when I actually went for myself, it was weird. Nothing made sense to me. I was thrilled to marry my husband, and that kinda even sucked because of the temple. Even though my wedding dress had sleeves, they were too short and I had to wear an ugly white jacket over it. And I didn’t like having to wear the ceremonial stuff over my dress either. But I shrugged it off and reminded myself that the important thing was I got to marry a really great guy. My husband and I decided to move into a loft apartment in the downtown of a big city and the temple was only 15 minutes away from us. My husband knew of my concerns about not understanding the meaning of the stuff we are not supposed to talk about and told me that if I went more often, it might make more sense to me. So we went often and each time I left perplexed and frustrated. I also became frustrated at the fact that I couldn’t memorize everything and I became embarrassed over that. After years of going, I finally figured out I couldn’t memorize any of it because I can only memorize things if I read them. I learn that way as well. But temple workers would say no when I asked if I could read the text. They explained it was only for temple workers. Most of the time the workers were kind to me when I didn’t know the words to say when it was time to speak, but a few were grumpy with me and that embarrassed me and made me feel bad. I remember leaving the temple crying because of one worker. But as much as I struggled with the temple, I was still a strong believer in the lds church. I just tried not to think about the temple.
Another thing that I struggled with and that totally surprised me was wearing garments. Since I had always dressed according to the lds church’s modesty standards, I didn’t think wearing garments would be a big deal. I didn’t like them at first, but I just ignored that and pushed it aside because I believed the lds church was God’s one and only church. And if this was His “true” church, then wearing the garments and even the temple had to be right. So there was something wrong with me. This forum has been such a comfort regarding garments. I found out I wasn’t the only one would felt the way I did and that there were other people who had a problem with the texture and having to wear that extra layer under my clothes. (I live in a place that is hot 6 months out of the year.) It got to the point that I would get upset and cry around every march because I was dreading having to wear frumpy jean shorts that go to my knees or jeans so that I wouldn’t look frumpy, but I’d be extremely overheated. I love the outdoors and it broke my heart that summer had become something I hated. Finally about 3 years ago my husband was hugging me while I was crying about it and told me just to not wear garments when its hot. He said he didn’t care and he didn’t think it would be wrong and that Heavenly Father understands my heart. So I started doing that and avoiding lds people in the summer so I wouldn’t be judged. Haha! It didn’t take me long to abandon wearing them altogether and my husband has been super supportive about it. He was the same type of kid I was growing up, but sweeter. I don’t think he ever fought with his siblings. They’d pick on him, but he’s a peacemaker so he took it from them. My husband still believes everything in the lds church, but I’d say he knows about 75% of where I stand. I haven’t told him 100% because what I’ve told him is all he can handle I think. Eek. Thankfully he’s never been preachy with me. He’s respectful of my beliefs and I am respectful of his. I’m so grateful for this quarantine/ no church time because it gives me a break from stressing about going to church. But I can say this honestly, if my kids were grown up at this moment, I would never step in an LDS church again. I wish I could walk away now, but I know its not that simple. My parents are super active in the church and my siblings are too. Well…. I just found out a few weeks ago that one of my siblings has been questioning the church for awhile. Her husband stopped believing years ago, and from what she’s texted me, it’s sounding like she’s headed in that direction too. She said that when she gets her answer from God that this church isn’t the “truest” church, she will walk away and she will tell our siblings and parents. If I ever walked away, I couldn’t tell my parents or other siblings. I guess I’m too prideful, but I don’t want them to look down on me and they will if they knew I walked away. But I don’t need to worry about telling them, because I can’t walk away right now out of respect for my husband’s beliefs and how he wants to raise the kids. After all, not too long ago, I wanted to raise our kids in the lds church too. So that’s where I’m at and this is far too long already. So I’ll stop.
Thanks for the intro and welcome to the forum. I recall going to the temple the first time and thinking it was sort of weird as well and I came out wondering what all the hype was about – “That’s it? This is what people rave about?” We mods know there are many lurkers and we are very mindful of all of the lurkers. If someone never wants to post there’s really not a need to create an account. We appreciate those we’ve helped without ever knowing it. That said, we also love fresh points of view and different perspectives from those who do formally introduce themselves and participate.
May you find the peace you seek.
Pinetreelover, welcome to the party. I like your Introduction. You said a lot. I especially liked: Quote:…I wanted to be perfect
Another thing you said,Quote:… I grew up in the LDS church as a strong believer and follower. For so long, I saw doctrine and right and
wrong as black and white.
I’m sure many of us can relate to your beliefs & feelings at this point in your life. I thought because I held a TR & faithful followed all
that I was taught, somehow, it entitled me to special inspiration or comfort in times of trial or doubt. When it didn’t, it was a big let
down. I have come back with a different belief system & understanding about what the gospel really means to me. I try not to judge
as much. I’m not perfect & never will be in this life. Who knows about the next? I’m sure I will learn more there too.
The temple and the ordinances are a “parable” to me. Meaning: when I can not do it perfectly, there are people who will help me along the
way. That is the purpose of this site. We are here to help you figure it out. Whatever “it” is. Take what you can use & leave the rest.
Thank you Dark Jedi and Minyan Man. Even though this forum has been a huge help for me, I’m still figuring things out. I’m so grateful I can do that here. I have a lot to learn. I don’t look at right and wrong as black and white anymore. Though the church did do some good for me growing up, it also did a lot of harm. If I could have known as a child that everything I was taught at church wasn’t true, that would have been helpful. I have a 2 1/2 year old and like my other two kids, this kid has kept me sleep deprived for the first two years of his life. I missed a lot of church his first two years due to that (I slept while my husband took the other two kids to church.). If I had believed everything in the church, I woulda made myself go to church more, sleep deprived and all. But I used my son’s birth to give myself a break from church. And I milked that situation like crazy. In August 2019 we moved to a new stake and ward. And the people in our ward attacked us – they would stop by uninvited and ring the door bell. If we haven’t invited someone over, we don’t answer the door. But some of these people rang the doorbell multiple times in one visit, waking my two year old from a nap and a few times waking kids we had just put to bed for the night. I used to be these kind of people, so I’m trying to be understanding. I know they’re trying to be perfect and they want to please God. They think they are pleasing God. Luckily they’ve been backing off the last few months. My husband and I joke that we need to go to church more so they’ll leave us alone. My husband is super quiet in social situations and has anxiety so this ward welcome has pushed him away from this ward too. But he’s still gone a lot more than me. When I do go, I stay with my two year old in nursery (my husband hides in there too haha) or I find a room with no one in there and hide in it. It’s so hard for me to go to church classes or hear sacrament talks because I feel I was lied to by the church all my life.
I’ve felt many of the things you’ve expressed. I don’t wear the garment top in the summer. If men truly are that they might have joy I don’t think obligating people to wear a second layer of clothing in +95 degree (35 celsius) weather in +70% humidity is the way to help them go about it. I’m glad the AC in heaven works so well but maybe that’s made some people there forget what it’s like down here.
I also know the feeling of anxiety surrounding memorizing the dialog at the veil. There’s always someone to help, but you still feel less than when you need that help.
One time I was going through the temple in a foreign language (foreign to me at least) and the helper didn’t appear to be in the mood of offering much help, they were pretty grumpy. I’m fairly certain the helper reached the point where they just let me through even though I still didn’t get it right and then decided to re-run the name I was using through the ceremony from the beginning. It was embarrassing and it wasn’t a very uplifting experience.
It’s good that your spouse is supportive of you and that you are supportive of your spouse. That makes a world of difference.
Pinetreelover wrote:
I guess I’m too prideful, but I don’t want them to look down on me and they will if they knew I walked away.
That’s a tough spot to be in but a spot many here have been in. Every situation is different, so this next statement may not be applicable at all but…
I view that feeling as the result of deep social programming. How many times have we heard others at church use language that implies that people that have stopped coming to church are less than? How many times have we said as much ourselves? How many times have we talked about people that don’t check all the boxes at church as not being strong enough? We’ve heard it so much that we’ve internalized it… we’ve
saidit so often that we’ve convinced ourselves it’s true. All that said, there are many other reasons to not want to be completely open, I was just addressing the one about feeling less than. IMO staying doesn’t make you any better or worse than someone that leaves and leaving doesn’t make you any better or worse than someone that stays. It’s just a path people choose.
Welcome!! Thank you for the introduction.
I am so happy we were there for you when you needed us. That is why I have stayed active for the last decade – why this has felt like a true volunteer mission to me.
If our words have blessed you, it was worth the time investment.
Thank you for your insight, Nibbler. I agree with what you said about the social programming in the church. I don’t think i would feel less than by going my own way and leaving the church. Right now I don’t believe most of what the church teaches and I especially don’t believe what I was taught at church growing up. I don’t have much figured out at the same time either. I hope there is a God, and if there is one, I think he’d love me the same no matter what church I belonged to or if I belonged to any church. I guess what’s hard to face is if my siblings and parents knew how I felt about the church, they would think I was led astray by the devil, that I don’t have the Holy Ghost with me. I don’t want them to think of me that way, even though I know those things aren’t true. But I’ve heard them say it about acquaintances who left the church and they wouldn’t hesitate to say it about me. It’s hard to say this because it’s sad to realize, but my parents’ love is conditional. If they knew how I felt right now, they wouldn’t talk to me anymore. I have at least one sibling who would do that as well. Now that’s some intense social programming right there. And Curt, you and so many others will never know how much your written words have helped me over these five years. I look up to you and so many of the others who post here. This really is such a great community. Thank you all so much!
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