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  • #213002
    Anonymous
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    Last month, DD was asked to come in for a bishop youth interview. I had talked to her beforehand and explained that she could have a parent present which she declined. Right before she was about to go in DD changed her mind and asked me to accompany her. Bishop seemed surprised but did not object. I sat in the corner and said that I would do my best not to interject unless called upon. I observed that the format of being a youth “get to know you” interview with a TR limited use recommend interview included seemed to give license for deviating from the strict TR questions. For example, he did specifically ask about pornography use. I believe that he thinks this is his duty and is standard in his interviews with youth.

    Yesterday, my son on the autism spectrum had his appointment for his bishopric youth interview for limited use recommend and advancement in the priesthood. This time I had printed the questions onto a piece of paper and reviewed them with DS the night prior. I explained various complicated words and phrases like Atonement, Restoration, Prophet Seer & Revelator, Law of Chastity (which DS first thought was an actual legal law), and Word of Wisdom. He observed on his own that all the questions could be answered with a yes. I then asked him if he supported any doctrines contrary to the church and he said yes. I asked him again if he supported any EVIL doctrines contrary to church teachings. He responded, “When you say it like that, I feel like I should say no.” We both laughed. DS did ask why this was necessary. Why did he have to answer these questions and why is it not enough that he answer them with me only? I do not have great answers for him. I told him that the Bishops are set up sort of like gatekeepers for the temple but since DS is not planning on going to the temple soon (they are closed for vicarious work) that answer did not seem to satisfy him.

    DS never wavered from his decision to have me accompany him. I believe the bishopric member might have been prepped for this because he made no comment of my joining the meeting. The Bishopric member did well reading from the questions. He did not ask about pornography or masturbation. He did ask DS what the law of chastity meant for him. DS responded that it meant not to have sex until married and the Bishopric member said yes and also when you start dating it can mean other inappropriate things spelled out in the FTSOY pamphlet. He similarly asked DS what the WoW is and DS replied that it meant not to drink coffee.

    The bishopric member also talked about the office of a teacher and that teachers are expected to prepare the sacrament water and bread. He asked if we would be at church on Sunday. DS looked at me and I responded that we are still doing virtual church. We resolved to schedule a time when DS can be ordained for priesthood advancement.

    We have received a directive at least as high as the stake level that all youth are strongly encouraged to return to attending church as normal. We are in an “extreme risk” area for COVID and we are divided into thirds as to who can attend church each week. However, families with youth are “expected” to come every week. Live youth activities have resumed. I speculate that someone is rather concerned about youth retention during this period of quarantine and I do believe that concern is warranted.

    Overall, I believe that both interviews went well and that my Bishop and Bishopric are good men with good intentions. I feel that being present in these interviews is appropriate and fits with the new push of the church as home centered, church supported.

    #340653
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Roy, you are a good Father. Well done.

    I’m not as sure about your Bishop when he deviates from the “get to know you” interview & starts to

    talk to my daughter about pornography. You showed great self control by not interrupting. I’m not

    sure I could of done that.

    #340654
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I have to admit I would not be comfortable as a mature man asking little girls about pornography. I think if I was a bishopric member, I would practically insist to have a parent/guardian present.

    However, I do appreciate children are being corrupted by it at a very young age. It greatly sorrows me that I first encountered a magazine at age seven or so, which I think is far too young. I have it on good authority from my former non-LDS therapist that pornography is causing massive problems is causing big problems among adolescents – body image problems for one.

    #340655
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thanks for sharing what you did to prepare your son for the interview. I had not thought about going over the questions in private first, but should DD decide to go the TR route, I will be sure to do so.

    #340656
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I did not mind the pornography deviation too much. I am not fully sure why it doesn’t bother me. Partly because it was just a quick question and he accepted my daughters response. It did not take on the feel of “digging” or a fishing expedition as I have heard has happened to others.

    AmyJ wrote:


    Thanks for sharing what you did to prepare your son for the interview. I had not thought about going over the questions in private first, but should DD decide to go the TR route, I will be sure to do so.


    You are welcome. I find that the biggest opportunity for the questioner to go off script is when the interviewee does not fully understand the question and the questioner must then explain how they understand the question using different words. I wanted to minimize the opportunities for this to happen. I was proud of how DS answered when the questioner asked him if he knew what the law of chastity was. I also cringed a little internally when the questioner felt the need to expand upon DS’s definitions. For example, the questioner told DS that the law of chastity also include other appropriate conduct while dating. This, to me, becomes overly broad. In response to DS’s answer about the word of wisdom prohibiting coffee, the questioner went on to expound on how the word of wisdom also includes positive invitations for healthy eating and exercise. I felt that this was confusing for DS. The question is phrased if you “obey” the WoW. If we think of the WoW to mean healthy living then what does it mean to “obey” healthy living?

    My goal in preparing DS was to help him answer the questions in a yes/no format without any additional commentary being required.

    Also, you had mentioned about your DD possibly not deciding to go the TR route. You may want to be prepared for your bishopric initiating a yearly youth interview that then also becomes a limited use TR interview. I believe that in most wards they do this as a Standard Operating Procedure. I am sure that you can decline the interview, yet that may also have reverberations and social consequences. Good luck!

    #340657
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Roy wrote:


    Also, you had mentioned about your DD possibly not deciding to go the TR route. You may want to be prepared for your bishopric initiating a yearly youth interview that then also becomes a limited use TR interview. I believe that in most wards they do this as a Standard Operating Procedure. I am sure that you can decline the interview, yet that may also have reverberations and social consequences. Good luck!

    I was already sort of thinking about that.

    My family is in a unique situation church-wise. NOTE: We just got a new branch president who just reorganized most of the presidencies.

    1. My husband does not attend church period. He has not attended church (in person or virtually) since Christmas 2019 I think. We have family meal prayers, but that’s about it. Ironically, he considers himself to have a testimony and be “active”. The branch knows he has health problems and assume that we are doing our own thing. As far as I know, no one has contacted him since November when they asked him for the codes to take over the Executive Secretary stuff he wasn’t doing.

    2. I attended church until the pandemic. I don’t usually attend virtual services. I teach R.S. virtually (Started doing so 1x a month in December) and I am slotted to run the girl’s Achievement Day program (we’ll be rebooting it this year after 9 months of MIA). People know that I don’t think the way everyone else does – they phrase it as “a fresh take on the gospel”.

    3. DD is 11 and they know she is an additional needs child. I got her a stay from her transitioning to YW from the Primary and Branch presidents on that. They know she is not a fan of church stuff (part of getting everyone on board with me physically going to Primary with her last year was this statement). She doesn’t like going anyplace at church physically without me – so they aren’t likely to ambush her. I have already told the Primary president that her grandmother and I want her first temple experience (should she choose to have one) to be with her out-of-state grandmother – and that won’t be until summer 2022 at the earliest. So, if/when they come asking, I am prepared.

    Honestly, I think my family is 1 step away from being a “rescue family” if they ever get around to it. But rescuing a family where the head of the household who never shows up but has a testimony, and the family members who show up contribute on their own terms muddies the waters considerably about the family themselves qualifying for “rescue”. We also live in the country – 15 to 30 minutes from different members and the church building.

    #340658
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I think it sounds as thought your kids’ interviews went about as well as they can. The preparation part you did was key to the success IMO. I don’t have minor children at home now (our baby is a returned missionary at BYU) and they were youth before the current option to have a parent/adult present. Nevertheless, we did review with them what should be asked in a TR interview beforehand, and before they went for their endowments we told them all we could about the endowment (and initiatory) itself. The only thing we “covenanted” not to disclose were the signs and tokens and the new name. Looking at what’s available on the church website, almost everything other than those is covered there.

    That said, I think the “loophole” local leaders use in the youth TR interviews is combining the periodic or annual interviews with the TR interview. There are fewer limits on what can be asked in the “regular” interview. There used to a similar loophole in the mission interview until those questions were standardized as well, which in our case didn’t happen until the the last one. In fairness I will say that our local leaders did not ask anything out of bounds or out of the ordinary for my boys, but one of them (stupidly and against my advice) began the interview process at BYU where he was asked all sorts of questions not on the current list.

    #340652
    Anonymous
    Guest

    AmyJ wrote:


    Honestly, I think my family is 1 step away from being a “rescue family” if they ever get around to it. But rescuing a family where the head of the household who never shows up but has a testimony, and the family members who show up contribute on their own terms muddies the waters considerably about the family themselves qualifying for “rescue”.

    Yeah, I know what you mean. Our family is in a similar situation while being also totally unique (mostly my consistent lack of tithing payment but otherwise church participation). I imagine the local church leadership doesn’t know what to do with us. You can’t quite “rescue” people that are participating. I also feel that church leaders are reluctant to withhold priesthood privilidge, like the ability to officiate in my children’s baptism or priesthood ordinations, because that is likely to drive us away. We remain in a delicate balance of status quo and that is fine with me.

    DarkJedi wrote:


    I think it sounds as thought your kids’ interviews went about as well as they can. The preparation part you did was key to the success IMO. I don’t have minor children at home now (our baby is a returned missionary at BYU) and they were youth before the current option to have a parent/adult present. Nevertheless, we did review with them what should be asked in a TR interview beforehand, and before they went for their endowments we told them all we could about the endowment (and initiatory) itself. The only thing we “covenanted” not to disclose were the signs and tokens and the new name. Looking at what’s available on the church website, almost everything other than those is covered there.

    I agree. I would definitely apply similar preparation for my children’s first endowment experience. I would like to be my son’s “escort” if he were to make the decision to go through. I suppose that would be something that might alter my current tithing situation.

    #340659
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Another year begins with another round of Bishop Youth Interviews.

    Once again I went over the questions with my kids beforehand and individually. This is perhaps my favorite part of the whole process because it is such a great opportunity for discussion. Both of my kids asked if supporting SSM was supporting teachings against the church. I explained that it might appear so at a glance. However, in practice you can attend Gay pride parades and still hold a TR so this does not seem to be the heart of what this question is asking. I explained my understanding that several of the questions seem to be designed to weed out polygamists and this might be one of them.

    We also had a good discussion about the Law of Chastity and that it is that sexual relations are only permitted between a man and a woman that are married. DD asked about SSM and I responded that it seems that the church does not recognize SSM for the purposes of keeping the law of chastity. We also discussed that sometimes individuals try to make the case that only vaginal intercourse counts as sex for the purpose of the LOC. I explained that this can result in some really crazy distortions. I understand that anything with the word sex in it definitely counts as sexual relations. DD asked about masturbation. I told her that masturbation is not sex and is therefore not included in the Law of Chastity. I also told her that our bishop may disagree and that is a good part of the reason why we are having this discussion beforehand. It is for us as parents to teach these things to our children. I do not want the bishop teaching what his interpretation might be.

    The interviews themselves went well. I gave each of my children the choice to have me present or not. DS choose to go in alone. This was a concern for DW as she has heard horror stories of interviews gone wrong. I feel that it is important for us to honor the choice of DS and allow him some independence. DD chose for me to accompany.

    With DD, Bishop stressed that it is good and proper to ask questions when you do not understand something. After the question about having a testimony of the Atonement Bishop asked DD “What does the Atonement mean to you personally?” This was some odd phrasing. DD responded well. Later after the question about the restoration, Bishop felt compelled to elaborate that the restoration was talking about Joseph Smith and the foundation of the church. I think Bishop was checking to make sure that DD understood what the words meant. After the question on the Law of Chastity, Bishop asked DD what she would do if an inappropriate pop-up come on the screen while she was on the internet. She responded that she would close the screen and then go tell someone and Bishop said that this was exactly right.

    Once again, bishop felt the need to deviate from the questions as printed both to verify understanding of the words and also to probe about pornography exposure. I do feel that my bishop is trying to perform his calling to the best of his ability. He is a good man. I do not love a system where my children have this yearly interview with the Bishop regardless of their interest on having a temple recommend or going on youth temple trips.

    #340660
    Anonymous
    Guest

    After DS returned home he told his mother that DS had told bishop in the interview that it had been hard attending church because of COVID. Bishop reportedly responded that they have masks and hand sanitizer available so that shouldn’t be a problem. Bishop reportedly told DS that he expects DS to come to church.

    This really upset DW and she wanted to confront bishop. She felt that our decision to watch the church service on the live stream should be respected. I told her that I don’t think that it would help and it had a possibility to hurt.

    I cannot imagine Bishop feeling bad or repenting for telling someone that they are expected to come to church. That seems well in line with what the church teaches. I think it more likely that we would be blamed or labeled for having an objection to the situation.

    #340661
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Roy wrote:


    …Once again, bishop felt the need to deviate from the questions as printed both to verify understanding of the words and also to probe about pornography exposure. I do feel that my bishop is trying to perform his calling to the best of his ability. He is a good man. I do not love a system where my children have this yearly interview with the Bishop regardless of their interest on having a temple recommend or going on youth temple trips.

    A number of Bishops consider themselves

    Quote:

    the Father of the Ward

    . Whatever that means. I personally would have a

    hard time when the Bishop “deviates”. I guess I’m really old because I don’t remember my children having Bishop Interviews.

    Roy, you’re a good example for preparing your children for the interviews.

    #340662
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Roy wrote:


    After DS returned home he told his mother that DS had told bishop in the interview that it had been hard attending church because of COVID. Bishop reportedly responded that they have masks and hand sanitizer available so that shouldn’t be a problem. Bishop reportedly told DS that he expects DS to come to church.

    I’m with your DW on that one. It would have upset me greatly and the bishop and I would have a chat about that.

    I don’t have the full story but it sounds like your bishop was dismissive of DS’s concerns.

    Edit:

    Also, if he wants your family at church he should be talking to one of the adults in the family, not working on a minor. I know kids probably want to have all the say-so, their input should really matter in family council, but ultimately the safety of the children is up to the parent. The bishop shouldn’t be going around the parents.

    #340663
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Minyan Man wrote:


    Roy wrote:


    …Once again, bishop felt the need to deviate from the questions as printed both to verify understanding of the words and also to probe about pornography exposure. I do feel that my bishop is trying to perform his calling to the best of his ability. He is a good man. I do not love a system where my children have this yearly interview with the Bishop regardless of their interest on having a temple recommend or going on youth temple trips.

    A number of Bishops consider themselves

    Quote:

    the Father of the Ward

    . Whatever that means. I personally would have a

    hard time when the Bishop “deviates”. I guess I’m really old because I don’t remember my children having Bishop Interviews.

    Roy, you’re a good example for preparing your children for the interviews.

    I agree with MM. In addition to being the “father of the ward” (which I think is a bit of an archaic term but nonetheless pops up) I think some bishops take their “responsibility” as “common judge in Israel” to the nth degree.

    I’m glad you followed up with what DS said because I was wondering if the bishop might have dome some similar “follow up” questions as he did with your daughter except that without you present he could have taken more free rein.

    A couple things come up there and I might have taken issue with asking the kid about parent/adult’s status. I have had my own experience with leaders trying to reach (and guilt) parents (me) through the children.

    I don’t attend church either, and yes they do have masks and hand sanitizer there. They also have unmasked people there and our ward currently has a serious COVID outbreak. At work I have very strict COVID protocols and we also have an outbreak there – masks and hand sanitizer don’t cut it.

    #340664
    Anonymous
    Guest

    I agree that Bishop was dismissive of my son’s concerns. Unfortunately, we as a family are at a point where we are seen as half-milers/slackers/luke warm etc. Therefore, I believe that our concerns are perceived as excuses. :problem:

    #340665
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Another part that I did not mention before is that DD is a part tithe payer and has declared as such at the last 2 years tithing settlements and her recent Bishop Youth Interview. Bishop commits her to become a full tithe payer and then moves on. He has also given her the limited use recommend. I do not think DD cares if she has a TR. It has been the church that is pushing for her to have the annual interview and the TR. However, not caring if she has one and being told that she cannot have one because she is somehow not worthy enough are two very different things. I imagine the later could very well be traumatic and I am therefore thankful that Bishop is not withholding a TR recommend over the partial payment of tithing.

    However, I am starting to wonder though how long this can go on like this. This is the third time that DD has committed to start paying a full tithe and this is the third time that she has not done so.

    After reading some discussion on another thread I wonder if there may be a solution. If DD were to pay a full tithing on her allowance but not on her earnings from outside the home she could claim that as a full tithe. This would honestly be an increase in the amount that DD currently donates to the church and might just be a compromise that allows her to answer the question in the “correct way.”

    I know that the church wants her to pay 10% gross of everything but I really do not see DD doing that voluntarily. I’m just thinking of how to move forward and break the stand-off.

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