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  • #213139
    Anonymous
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    LDS Daily is doing a Q & A series. LDS Daily is not part of the official church and does not speak for the church.

    A recent question caught my eye. Why Did the Lord Institute Polygamy? https://www.ldsdaily.com/personal-lds-blog/gospel-qa-why-did-the-lord-institute-polygamy/

    To begin, the question is leading but let us continue…

    The author states that they did research and pondering…

    Quote:

    I looked in the scriptures for times that polygamy was approved by the Lord to see what similarities might be found in the circumstances.

    This just seems crazy to me. I can look at the similarities between cats and dogs and conclude that they are the same. Or perhaps it would be much more on point to compare the similarities between slavery in antebellum US to slavery in biblical times to determine why God might sometimes approve of slavery (for limited time periods and circumstances). This process is known as parallelism where we look at two different things and look for parallels. This happens a lot in the LDS church because when we find parallels to ancient Judeo or early Christian groups then we can say “See? We have restored something that was known and taught anciently.” If we find parallels to old non-Judeo or Christian groups (for example Romans, Egyptians, or Zoroastians) then we can say “See? That was part of the truth that was splintered during a phase of apostasy but still remained recognizable in an adulterated/modified form.”

    What follows are some really strange generalizations and attempts at retro-active continuity. The author argues that it was necessary to create a large posterity quickly. Why is God in such a hurry? Humans multiply fairly rapidly after only a few generations? Could God have not planned it out to just take a little bit longer? I’m not trying to be difficult. It’s just that if we assume that monogamy is important to God AND time is unlimited to God then why would he sacrifice eternal principles in the face of expediency?

    The author also claims that Jacob “married” his wives’ handmaidens Ziplah and Bilhah. The story of Ziplah and Bilhah is hard and not something that I think we can look to as ideal. Jewish tradition holds that Laban had at least 2 wives and one of those wives was either a concubine or a maidservant. The tradition holds that Ziplah and Bilhah were the product of this relationship with a wife of a lower caste and that meant that they were likewise servants. According to this tradition, Ziplah and Bilhah were half sisters of Rachel and Leah that were gifted to them (Rachel and Leah) as wedding presents to be servants in their new households. Later, Rachel and Leah get into a rivalry about giving children and each end up presenting their maidservant half-sister to Jacob as a means by which they can have more children. https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/4936938/jewish/Who-Were-Bilhah-and-Zilpah.htm#footnote18a4936938

    It is really really hard for me to see the God that I know and worship having “approved” of those particular circumstances. It seems disingenuous to reduce that whole story down to God is “very practical. If Jacob were to be the father of a great nation—of the entirety of the twelve tribes—having many mothers to bring them into the world was probably necessary. It had to be done to bring about the desired outcome of posterity.”

    Back to the opening question of Why Did the Lord Institute Polygamy? This is an issue that I find with much apologetics. If I start with a predetermined assumption and then only pick those examples that support my conclusions then my analysis will, of course, be hopelessly flawed.

    #342291
    Anonymous
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    Polygamy increases the progeny of specific selected males, but does not increase the population in general.

    One might also argue that if population increase were the purpose, why did Joseph Smith not have children with his many additional wives, and why in the world did he marry those who already had husbands? And why do we still allow a man to be eternally married to more than one wonan?

    I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but it seems to take an awful lot of mind bending and scripture twisting to make polygamy fit into a plan of God, but only one simple explanation of why maybe it doesn’t really. I think Occam’s Razor wins this one.

    #342292
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Cnsl1 wrote:


    One might also argue that if population increase were the purpose, why did Joseph Smith not have children with his many additional wives, and why in the world did he marry those who already had husbands? And why do we still allow a man to be eternally married to more than one wonan?

    I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but it seems to take an awful lot of mind bending and scripture twisting to make polygamy fit into a plan of God, but only one simple explanation of why maybe it doesn’t really. I think Occam’s Razor wins this one.

    The fundamental problem with polygamy is that it creates “one to many” ratios without returning the favor. 1 Man can be sexually and/or emotionally and/or legally connected/”sealed” to many Women in our culture but it doesn’t go the other way around among living people.

    There is a lot of unanticipated fallout from the practice over generations and from a theological standpoint. It didn’t create more children, it did not provide leadership for the children being raised to the degree that traditional families do, it did not mitigate any poverty that I know of. However, women who were plural wives got to take a break from their mothering responsibilities to go to school in the past. It did work for some families some of the time.

    In today’s time, it says clear messages about the worth of women and their place in the church and in the home and/or clear, specific theological messages are pulled from the doctrine. Women get the clear mixed message that they are valued individually as a “Child of Heavenly Parents” AND potentially being groomed for a position of being “one of many”.

    Are there times that 1 man should be “linked” to more then 1 woman in this way? I don’t know. I currently lean against it being a good idea because of the magnitude of the fallout that I know about (very limitedly though) and my core value of “Egalitarianism” [So if we get polygamy, we get polyandry too].

    Is it sanctioned by God? I don’t know. I treat the Bible the way that I treat a story told by 1 of my kids about something I did not experience myself as their perspective. I recognize the “I’m chosen” bias that all kids have in the scriptures. I don’t think they can give me all the facts (just the ones that matter to them) or pick up on everything being said (including inside jokes). So I think our scriptures tell us about times when it was OK to view women as “one of many” (at least on paper).

    #342293
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Cnsl1 wrote:


    Polygamy increases the progeny of specific selected males, but does not increase the population in general.

    This is why the population increase argument falls flat for me. It only works if there are more women in their child-bearing years than there are adult men. The similar explanation that gets tossed out there is that all the excess women and widows needed to be cared for. I’d be curious to see what the exact demographics of the saints were at the time… Just to see if those explanations hold any water.

    #342294
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Roy wrote:


    It is really really hard for me to see the God that I know and worship having “approved” of those particular circumstances. It seems disingenuous to reduce that whole story down to God is “very practical. If Jacob were to be the father of a great nation—of the entirety of the twelve tribes—having many mothers to bring them into the world was probably necessary. It had to be done to bring about the desired outcome of posterity.”


    I agree, and as has been said the whole idea of instituting polygamy in the modern church for that same reason doesn’t hold water when we look at who participated and how many that really affected.

    Quote:

    Back to the opening question of Why Did the Lord Institute Polygamy? This is an issue that I find with much apologetics. If I start with a predetermined assumption and then only pick those examples that support my conclusions then my analysis will, of course, be hopelessly flawed.

    The title of the article presupposes God instituted polygamy, or at least that the reader believes God did so. I don’t believe God did so in “modern” times and I’m dubious about the OT stories. I think many in the church, including apologists, do exactly what you have said. I think that can be proven with the current Come Follow Me curriculum. Not all we skip is repetitive, some just doesn’t fit the narrative. Likewise, some of what we don’t skip is bent to fit the narrative. I am a believer that much of scripture has multiple interpretations, and that may even be on purpose – but interpretations outside the church narrative seem to be discouraged and even dismissed. There is far too much “everyone who has ever eaten a pickle has eventually died, therefore pickles are bad for us” within church – even though everyone who didn’t eat a pickle also died and there’s no correlation between eating pickles and death.

    #342295
    Anonymous
    Guest

    It is just really disappointing to me that this sort of stuff gets published. The church does have some more rigorous materials on the subject. The author could have referenced the Gospel Essay on the subject or possibly the series written by Brian Hales.

    Because there isn’t an official explanation then anyone with a faith promoting theory gets to throw their personal “spaghetti against the wall.”

    I know that church leaders somewhat ended up with egg on their face after providing explanations for why the priesthood ban existed that they then had to rather abruptly disavow. They would probably not want a repeat of that.

    I suppose that I too do not want church leaders providing more authoritative justifications and in the lack of authoritative explanations well meaning members jump in to fill the vacuum.

    I understand that the church would have a terrible time deciding that polygamy wasn’t from God. That would really shake the “prophet cannot lead the church astray” rhetoric. I suppose the best that can be hoped for realistically is the assertion that God was somehow testing the early Mormons and that they passed. Then maybe we can move away from the ideas of polygamy existing in heaven. That would be yet another thorny issue but maybe we could just come to the idea that we do not have clear direction on exactly how family relationships will play out in the afterlife but we do now that the sealing ceremony strengthens these relationships.

    Alas, maybe someday.

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