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July 19, 2022 at 10:33 pm #213163
Anonymous
GuestMarital rape happens when one spouse forces the other spouse to have sex without their consent. Being married does not remove the need to have consent. Throughout history, women were seen as property and rape was seen as a violation of that property (either belonging to the husband or the father). Therefore, for many centuries it was reasoned that a husband could not rape his wife because his wife was not allowed to withhold her sexuality from him. Quote:These views of marriage and sexuality started to be challenged in most Western countries from the 1960s and 70s especially by second-wave feminism, leading to an acknowledgment of the woman’s right to self-determination of all matters relating to her body, and the withdrawal of the exemption or defense of marital rape.
By the 1990s many jurisdictions, including all fifty U.S. states, had criminalized marital rape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape The August version of the Liahona features an article titled “Honoring Agency in Physical Intimacy.” Is essentially states that getting consent is required before initiating physical affection (kissing, hugging, holding hands) or sexual contact – even after marriage.
While it does not use the words “marital rape,” it specifically states…
Quote:when agency is used to act upon others, disregarding their right to choose how and when to participate in either physical affection or sexual intimacy, such contact becomes an act of aggression that lacks respect for God’s standards and the other individual’s agency, feelings, and desires. Using physical contact for selfish gratification or as a tool to subjugate and manipulate another person is a sin that can cause lasting harm to individuals and relationships.
I want to applaud the church for putting this in black and white. I think that there had been some old school hardliners in our church that still maintained the idea that women belong to their husbands (and teachings about polygamy certainly help to reinforce that interpretation). I think that since the 1980s the church has evolved a great deal in this area and I am 100% in favor.July 20, 2022 at 5:18 am #342614Anonymous
GuestRoy wrote:
Marital rape happens when one spouse forces the other spouse to have sex without their consent. Being married does not remove the need to have consent. Throughout history, women were seen as property and rape was seen as a violation of that property (either belonging to the husband or the father). Therefore, for many centuries it was reasoned that a husband could not rape his wife because his wife was not allowed to withhold her sexuality from him.Quote:These views of marriage and sexuality started to be challenged in most Western countries from the 1960s and 70s especially by second-wave feminism, leading to an acknowledgment of the woman’s right to self-determination of all matters relating to her body, and the withdrawal of the exemption or defense of marital rape.
By the 1990s many jurisdictions, including all fifty U.S. states, had criminalized marital rape.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape The August version of the Liahona features an article titled “Honoring Agency in Physical Intimacy.” Is essentially states that getting consent is required before initiating physical affection (kissing, hugging, holding hands) or sexual contact – even after marriage.
While it does not use the words “marital rape,” it specifically states…
Quote:when agency is used to act upon others, disregarding their right to choose how and when to participate in either physical affection or sexual intimacy, such contact becomes an act of aggression that lacks respect for God’s standards and the other individual’s agency, feelings, and desires.
Using physical contact for selfish gratification or as a tool to subjugate and manipulate another person is a sin that can cause lasting harm to individuals and relationships. I want to applaud the church for putting this in black and white. I think that there had been some old school hardliners in our church that still maintained the idea that women belong to their husbands (and teachings about polygamy certainly help to reinforce that interpretation). I think that since the 1980s the church has evolved a great deal in this area and I am 100% in favor.
I have bolded and underlined a particular part. Intimacy in marriage should never be by force nor used (withheld) as punishment. A marriage is failing if a husband and wife are not acting together as one. The term in Hebrew that is used to describe the oneness in marriage is “ehad”. This is the same term used to indicate one G-d. The Hebrew term for “one” individual is “yhead”.
July 20, 2022 at 3:28 pm #342615Anonymous
GuestWe get the Liahona but I don’t usually read anything from it unless recommended. (My wife does read it but only the articles she’s interested in.) I’m glad an article like this has been published in the church’s official outlet. I know people, including in my own ward, who still hold to the old “wifely duty” idea. The thing is I doubt they read articles like this and even if they do, like the rest of us they hear what they want to hear. So people like us are “Yes!” with a fist pump while people like them are “Meh. The Bible says….” (Ignoring the many even seemingly minor offenses for which one can be stoned to death in the OT.) July 20, 2022 at 6:19 pm #342616Anonymous
GuestLooks like I neglected to include the link to the article. Another great quote from the article:
Quote:Sadly, we sometimes hear that one marriage partner thinks he or she has the right to force or insist that the other person engage in sexual behavior. As we keep our covenants as husband and wife, we should not do things that make our spouse uncomfortable or offend the Spirit. Spouses resolve differences in their desires about frequency or type of sexual activity through counseling together rather than through force or pressure.
I take note that it says that the TYPE of sexual activity should be counseled together between the spouses. This is another major declaration that helps to change some previous church stances.
July 23, 2022 at 1:31 am #342617Anonymous
GuestThis is excellent. I hope EVERY church leader at EVERY level reads and understands it. August 7, 2022 at 1:34 am #342618Anonymous
GuestI wish there was a term to describe when spouses refuse to meet the sexual needs of their partners even though those partners are meeting their spouses other emotional needs. It’s not rape, but a kind of reverse-rape that is also damaging to the soul and relationships. According to the concept of marital rape, the person being shut out can’t force themselves on their spouse, understandably. But what consequences are there for the unwilling spouse? And this is assuming the person is fully functional and doesn’t have any mental or physical problems that prevent intercourse. August 7, 2022 at 10:34 pm #342619Anonymous
GuestYes, SD. That is a sort of prison also. I am in a Facebook group for LDS Sexual Therapist Jennifer FF where people share their situations to get some crowdsourced help. It is quite common to have a desire mismatch within marriage. it is not unusual for some couples to go years without sexual intercourse. There is significant pain in these marriages that might not be evident from the outside.
I am convinced that the LDS church (and probably most churches) is not helpful in providing counsel in sexual matters. I am thankful that there are experts like Jennifer FF for those in need.
August 8, 2022 at 6:39 pm #342620Anonymous
GuestRoy wrote:
I am convinced that the LDS church (and probably most churches) is not helpful in providing counsel in sexual matters. I am thankful that there are experts like Jennifer FF for those in need.
My wife and I saw a church therapist over her vaginismus and he had a few cognitive techniques that we tried, but he wasn’t nearly as effective as the secular therapist was. One approach that was successful in increasing desire (but not solving the vaginismus problem) was my wife reading erotic literature. She came at me regularly, but it still didn’t fix the vaginismus problem. This (erotic literature), of course, would be totally against any church philosophy of increasing sexual desire. The most effective therapy was from her obstetrician who prescribed graduated dilators.
But that was a highly specific, psycho-somatic problem, and not just the case of an unwilling spouse.
August 8, 2022 at 7:14 pm #342621Anonymous
GuestJust as the church is staffed largely with volunteers and you get what you pay for – the same is true for our website, StayLDS. We have our personal experiences and we try to share the things that might have worked well for us personally. We function largely as a support group and are in no way a substitute for professional help for those that might need it (and I am in the camp that most of us could really use it from time to time).
August 9, 2022 at 5:44 am #342622Anonymous
GuestRoy wrote:
Just as the church is staffed largely with volunteers and you get what you pay for – the same is true for our website, StayLDS.We have our personal experiences and we try to share the things that might have worked well for us personally. We function largely as a support group and are in no way a substitute for professional help for those that might need it (
and I am in the camp that most of us could really use it from time to time).
I find that therapists vary widely in their ability. I have seen several over the years, both personally and for my marriage. Some have been well, quite useless. I found that if they work from a standard program of therapy — like Imago for marital relationships, or Rational Emotive Therapy for individual issues, or EMDR therapy for individuals, they tend to be more effective than someone working from an eclectic mish-mash of theories they learned in the Master’s degree.
Also, if issues can be treated medically, I have found they are more effective than non-medical treatments.
****
Personal note: I finally got psychiatric help a couple years ago. They assessed me and found I had elements of a wide variety of disorders, but not enough in any one category for a firm diagnosis. They, therefore, treated me for anxiety and depression using Symbiax. It did wonders for me. A close friend told me I was calmer, didn’t fixate on things that were bothering me, and was a better listener. My wife said the difference was about 30%-40% better. After my work canceled the benefits for the cognitive therapy I was doing in tandem with the medical treatment, my psychiatrist said not to worry about the lost therapy benefits as the meds were working. I still take them and they relieve me of so much angst I once felt
August 9, 2022 at 8:51 pm #342623Anonymous
GuestSilentDawning wrote:
****Personal note: I finally got psychiatric help a couple years ago. They assessed me and found I had elements of a wide variety of disorders, but not enough in any one category for a firm diagnosis. They, therefore, treated me for anxiety and depression using Symbiax. It did wonders for me. A close friend told me I was calmer, didn’t fixate on things that were bothering me, and was a better listener. My wife said the difference was about 30%-40% better. After my work canceled the benefits for the cognitive therapy I was doing in tandem with the medical treatment, my psychiatrist said not to worry about the lost therapy benefits as the meds were working. I still take them and they relieve me of so much angst I once felt
I am very happy to hear that SD.
:thumbup: August 15, 2022 at 3:18 am #342624Anonymous
GuestAs with all counseling, LDS Family Services does great, good, mediocre, so-so, and bad jobs when it comes to any and all sexual matters – depending on the counselor. -
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