What is Heaven?

We know so little about heaven or the afterlife in general (and for the sake of the conversation I’ll suppose there is an afterlife). Most of what we think we know isn’t really based on scripture or is based on one interpretation of scripture when there are other possible (or even probable) meanings. The rest of what we think we know is stuff man came up with. I don’t personally believe in the three degrees, but if they did exist I subscribe to the pre-McConkie era when it was widely taught and believed “progression” trough the kingdoms was possible. And I totally agree with Nibbler, heaven is likely a state of mind (or being). So with that, here goes.

Do you believe there are laws (rules) in heaven? If so, are there punishments for breaking them? I suppose from a purist point of view there would be no need for laws because we’d all be perfect. I do believe God is bound by the laws of physics (even those we don’t yet understand) and probably is really not omnipotent in that respect.

Do you believe there is justice in heaven? I believe the definition of justice is fairness. With that definition, yes I believe heaven is just (and thus is the hope of the Gospel).

Will all individuals be alike, or will there be differences in eye color, hair color, skin color or other physical or spiritual attributes? Will some be more glorious than others? Why or why not? Doubtful we’ll all look alike, not sure if we’ll look like we do here. Since we know so little there’s no way to explain believing one way or the other. Going back to the last question, if there is fairness in heaven there will be none above (or more glorious than) another. I don’t believe God plays favorites (justice at work).

Will there be an order or hierarchy – will some be more responsible than others? Another toughie because we just don’t know enough. In my heaven, no (justice again).

What do you plan to do? Will you take an eternal vacation, or will you work endlessly? Or some combination? Heaven would be no fun if it were all work. I view it more as an eternal vacation but really have no idea. I can’t say what I’d do. I hope they have some good TV shows and movies.

What service can you possibly provide if everybody has everything they want or need? Good point, maybe that’s why we’re supposed to do it here.

Will you sit on a throne and give directions or make judgements? No, and neither will anybody else (justice once again).

Will you have closer relationships with certain others (family)? I don’t know about closer but I hope we do have relationships. I think that’s a common belief (the church teaching that others don’t believe in eternal marriage/eternal relationships is untrue – just read any day’s worth of obituaries and you’ll figure that out). That said, I also believe the church teaching of being sealed together as families may not be exactly the way we are taught and believe, although we may be sealed together in some way as one big family (children of God). Our sealing will not depend on any earthly beings nor our obedience to the WoW, paying tithing, or any other “worthiness” (justice yet again).

There are those who postulate here that heaven and post-earthly relationships will be whatever we want them to be. If there is a heaven I more or less subscribe to that idea. For the record, I do not believe there is a hell.

I do have another thought on the topic. I’m not sure we’re supposed to be all that worried about heaven – and maybe that’s why we don’t know a lot about it.

Master Yoda said of Luke Skywalker “All his life has he looked away…to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing.” Maybe we’re supposed to be more concerned with what we’re doing now than worrying about something we know almost nothing about.

I do have another thought on the topic. I’m not sure we’re supposed to be all that worried about heaven – and maybe that’s why we don’t know a lot about it.

Master Yoda said of Luke Skywalker “All his life has he looked away…to the future, to the horizon. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing.” Maybe we’re supposed to be more concerned with what we’re doing now than worrying about something we know almost nothing about.

This is a good thought. Really, details about what lays beyond are useless to us. We have enough to provide hope and comfort about what comes next, but not much more. Knowing what time my celestial harp lessons will be does nothing for my life and how I live it today.

There are a few different views on the afterlife that I have encountered in recent years that I find quite interesting.

Growing up in the church, I always thought reincarnation was a ridiculous concept, but more recently I have come to appreciate it more. I think reincarnation could be a form of “eternal progression” that could solve a lot of things that bother me about the plan of salvation. It could allow for universal salvation while still requiring eventual perfection of everyone. We could carry certain positive character traits we develop into a new life after we die, then repeat the cycle as we get better and better. This could be one type of “heaven”, which would pretty much just be life but with the opportunity to make ourselves better and the hope of more favorable circumstances in the next life.

There is another concept of the afterlife that I have seen in some works of fiction where a character is given immortality, often as a form of punishment. They live a fairly normal life as an immortal among mortals, unable to die but having some kind of supernatural powers, and also being immensely wealthy after having lived for 1000 years. While the point of these stories is often the pain of outliving everyone they care about and the meaninglessness of an unending existence, I think there are elements of this that are kind of nice.

Basically, there are a lot of things I would like to do that I will never get the opportunity to do because of time, money, or mortality. Too many things to be able to do in one human lifetime. Expensive things that I will never have the money to do. Dangerous things that are too risky to do as a mere mortal. For me, I would hope for a heaven where I can pretty much still be me, but be able to do the things I was not able to do before. And if everyone else was still mortal, you could go around doing good and making the world a better place. In many ways, I think being in the human world as an immortal but still human being would be far more interesting than being in a heaven where everyone is exalted and has all they would ever need. This could also be a type of “heaven”, which I guess could be seen as the Three-Nephite track.

Overall, I believe Heaven, Hell, Kingdoms of Glory, etc. is the eternal extension of who we strive to become – if individual life exists after death. I am not sure I believe in it or not, but I hope for it, so I live with that hope as a guide. I also believe in the concept of enacting Heaven on Earth – of stiving to be heavenly human – of working to become now what we want to be then.

1. Do you believe there are laws (rules) in heaven? If so, are there punishments for breaking them?

No. I hope for a final destination where rules and punishments are not necessary. We simply are good for goodness sake.

2. Do you believe there is justice in heaven?

Depends on how that is defined. I hope for grace and mercy, not justice.

3. Will all individuals be alike, or will there be differences in eye color, hair color, skin color or other physical or spiritual attributes? Will some be more glorious than others? Why or why not?

No idea, and don’t care – except for the question of glory. I see the kingdoms of glory as general descriptions of a growth process, so I don’t believe in glory gradations in Heaven. Having said that, I DESPISE the idea that “God” is any particular race or has any particular hair color or is tall and chiseled or any other assumption based on moral prejudices. I mean that; it is despicable to me.

4. Will there be an order or hierarchy – will some be more responsible than others?

Nope. That is my hope.

5. What do you plan to do? Will you take an eternal vacation, or will you work endlessly? Or some combination?

Whatever is done in Heaven – hoping it isn’t an eternal vacation. The standard Protestant depiction of eternal rest while singing praises endlessly would be Hell to me.

6. What service can you possibly provide if everybody has everything they want or need?

This is where Mormon theology is the only one that works for me, as I frame it. In a Council of the Gods creative construct, I can provide laughter and perspective as others work on the actual creation.

7. Will you sit on a throne and give directions or make judgments?

That would be Hell to me.

8. Will you have closer relationships with certain others (family)?

Sure, with some who are not close now due to mortal limitations and radically different perspectives. That, at least, is my hope.

I have opinions that may be different than most posting on this forum. I think much of what we experience in mortality will still exist in heaven. I do believe that there is good and evil, and I think we experience the difference in mortality, with the exception that I am thinking we will not be shielded or limited in heaven (or whatever life we find ourselves in the resurrection) from good or evil.

I am of the opinion that evil and its side kick, chaos – is the “natural” default of all things both physically and spiritually. That to be associated with good we must constantly maintain and keep renewals of good but that evil – like weeds in a garden – will take over whenever good is neglected. I am of the mind that the war between good and evil (light and dark) will be much more prevalent in heaven. I speculate that some will be very reliant and dependent on the mercy of those much more diligent in keeping darkness and evil at bay. Much like we all are dependent on G-d currently.

I believe some will become masters of discipline and that they will be free to have dominion over themselves that those that they shepherd – others I believe will remain dependent on those that protect and oversee heaven.

As far as enjoyment – I believe that all will enjoy and receive the blessings of heaven. I do believe that some will be like G-d and out of love share with and shepherd others. As a youth I would often complain about what was expected of me – My father would always remind me that there are two kinds of willing individuals in any society, country or community – those that are willing to work and contribute and those that are willing to let them.

I wonder if there are two kinds of attitudes among the citizens in the kingdoms of heaven – those that are willing to sacrifice for the benefit of others (the givers) and those that are willing to let them (the takers). I am of the opinion that this is not two or even 3 territories divided by and fine boundary with everybody on one side or the other but rather a spectrum kind of what is explained in Abraham chapter 3 but with the caveat that generally the spectrum will be known as 3 types of givers and takers.

I think the flaw in many attitudes of Christians is that they are mostly concerned about what they will get – their blessings, their glory, the mercy they get, their salvation and not so much on their sacrifices, their forgiveness of others, their mercy and their love for others. I include myself because I often do not care that much of others that scoff and belittle those things, I hold sacred.

When our third child was stillborn I was very frustrated that there were no definitive pronouncements about what would happen to her in the eternities.

Did she count as a living soul that was sealed to us under the covenant and would therefore be returned to us to raise in the millennium? The word from the church leaders was, “Maybe.”

I had a hard time accepting that. If the prophet didn’t know the answer then he could just ask G-d and then get back to me.

It has taken me a long time to come to peace with not knowing.

I now accept that everyone with a stillborn child can come up with an idea of what will happen that is most meaningful to them.

Maybe what happens will be up to the desire of each individual set of parents.

I feel that heaven is similar. We don’t “know” a whole lot about it. Over the centuries, many people have imagined their hopes and dreams and projected that onto the construct of heaven. Some of that might work for me and some of it might not.

My thinking revolves quite a bit around 1 Corinthians 2:9

Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.”

I imagine that our attempts to speculate what heaven will be like might only scratch the surface of what G-d has in store.

Perhaps we will all be right on some particulars. I also imagine that we will all be wrong about other details. However, I believe that even in being wrong there will be no shame – only wonder and amazement at how much better the reality is from what we had envisioned.

Thank you for your contribution, Roy. As I was reading your comments, I thought of the SIFY writer Arthur C. Clarke that said in essence that any civilization with sufficiently advanced technology will be ununderstood (unexplainable) and thought of as magic. I have often pondered transporting one of my distant ancestors to my home for a day. How would I explain the internet, TV and facetiming someone on a different continent? Even if I gave them a cell phone to take back with them – it would not work in their past environment, and no one would be able to discern the components or how to reverse engineer it without the infrastructure of both technologies and knowledge to support it.

I have often wondered if at some distance time we (and other religious thinkers) meet with G-d and he takes us with him for a tour of Heaven (Celestial Kingdom) and when we see who is there and what they are about that we ask G-d if this is really heaven? He would respond with the notion that it is just one of many possibilities. And then we explain what we hoped that heaven would be. In turn G-d tells us that there is such a heaven that has been prepared just for us and those that desire such a heaven but it is not where he permanently resides.

I do not know what will happen to children that are still born. But from what I understand of the Plan of Salvation (Plan of Happiness) is that what ever happens it will be the best possibility for that child that fulfills both theirs and your agency and all such things were known and agreed upon in our pre-existence.