Questioning the scriptures as an "Answer Book"

I see scriptures as a record of how people throughout history have viewed God – and how those views influenced how they saw and treated themselves and others.

I love scriptures for what they show me I need to model AND reject – just like all other historical volumes. That is a critical thing for me.

Similar to OT and Roy, I believe the scriptures to be how individual writers understood their religion/faith. There can be helpful stuff in there, and there can be harmful stuff in there. Take the good and what works for you and leave the rest. They do not contain the answers to all life’s questions or problems. I can see how a young person might believe that because they’ve been taught that, but the reason they believe it is because they probably haven’t encountered some of the problems the scriptures don’t have the answer for. I have fairly regularly heard it said (including in the last few weeks) that if we pray for an answer and watch all of General Conference we will get the answer we seek. I’ve been there and done that – it might work for some people and some problems, but not everyone and all problems. Just saying.

Very insightful Amy.

I also think that one of the real problems the church faces is that the their canon is being substituted for different writings from non-LDS, non-Christian, even worldly sources and or entertainment (not in a preachy way – I am the first to substitute/supplement) in the space of the dwindling of one of the most value-able resources: Attention. Church meetings were used to train children to “pay attention” to teach things. Now, a lot of us ask some hard questions about what our children should “pay attention to” – and we ourselves do so more virtually on our own time frames in more entertaining ways.

Also, what the churches focus on and represent is changing – so some people are choosing to disengage from church because the people don’t trust the church teachings and/or feel their experience is represented. Democracy as a concept is that “Representation Matters” – it mattered to the American Colonies (in their initial break from England), and it matters today as more of human experience is included in the narrative the community is telling itself.

People are going to take words/concepts/stories into their heads and then shift them to their hearts through their hands – but the words/concepts/stories being used are going to be more universal (less tribal and potentially more inclusive), more tested (scientific theory has shifted how we see our place in the universe), and contain more perspectives. Mental health/counseling and other fields are empowering people to change their thinking from a bottom-up perspective instead of those same individuals being told what to do (in broad strokes).

I sometimes think that the church is focused on answering 19th century questions (which church is true?) and not as great at 21st century questions (why church?).

I sometimes think that the church is focused on answering 19th century questions (which church is true?) and not as great at 21st century questions (why church?).

I think you’re absolutely right, Roy. I think this was one of Jana Reiss’s conclusions in The Next Mormons. And judging by this past weekend’s conference the church has made no progress in this regard.

I will make an effort to present my opinion about scripture based upon my experiences. At an early age I became interested in both religion and science. I became convinced that what I was told about religion was flawed compared to what I was learning about science. I began to believe that many (perhaps most) holding to religion were blind to human advances and truths being discovered in science. That the separation between science and religion was primarily the fault of religion.

I began to study scripture and religion through the lens of science. I found myself more open to “things” in other religions. I learned that to study other religions I needed to befriend someone devout in whatever religion I intended to study. I learned it unwise to talk to Christians about the religion of Muslims, Buddhists or Hindu or even Satan worship. I also learned that talking to Christians about atheists is about as fruitful as learning of Christianity from atheists.

The more I learned about science and other religions the more I learned and understood about my deep roots in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the more I came to appreciate those deep roots. Most of all, I believe I have discovered that those that have faced the more difficult challenges of life and survived and thrived – the more such individuals have to contribute to others navigating the turbulences of similar waters.

I will likely be criticized for not comforting those in need of comfort but it also seems to me those stuck in their own sorrows do not contribute much for themselves nor others but rather are in need of someone that understands their certain sorrows and can speak and comfort them. Because I find great benefits to devotions to scriptures and to religious principles – I will likely not connect with those who have difficulty with such. For me, science and things spiritual are great gifts or opportunities in life. And for all my experiences and studies I have never found any religion more suitable to science than the principles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I have come to believe in the understanding that only through divine influence (Holy Ghost) can any truth (of science or religion) be understood and bring lasting comfort to any purpose. I cannot speak for anyone else but only myself and my experiences.

Sincere question, watcher:

How do you view scriptures?

I have thought about how to answer your question. To do so I think I need to deal with a number of factors that divine scripture rely upon. It is my understanding that there are two opposing principalities at work among mortals which can be summed up as light and liberating intelligence and the other is darkness and overbearance. I believe that G-d’s work and glory is the bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. Which I think of in terms of ultimate liberty and freedom. In opposition, I believe that Satan’s work and glory is to bring to pass the immorality and infernal life of man. Which I think of in terms of ultimate dominance and bondage.

I see scripture in its initial offering from G-d as pure light and intelligence (as are all things of G-d) – which for man in their mortal and fallen state is incomprehensible. Therefore, in order to relate to the light and truth in scripture we, of necessity, require inspiration and guidance from a spirit of light and truth (which is the Holy Ghost). Because of our mortal and fallen state we are subjected to influences form a spirit of darkness and overbearance which of necessity (or as a default) will overcome us. To defeat darkness we must become disciplined – which I believe is the first or initial step of sacrifice.

With this background I think I can now talk about scripture. All scripture comes to us through mortal individuals. In order for such an individual to provide scripture they, of necessity, must be influenced by a spirit of light and truth (which cannot happen unless they have become somewhat disciplined). But in order for us to comprehend scripture we must be influenced by the same spirit of light and truth (which cannot happen unless we have become somewhat disciplined).

It is interesting to me that we have no “first” or “initial” copies of any scripture. All are secondary copies of copies – sometimes numerous copies of copies. I believe that the more downstream our copies of scripture the more disciplined and studied in the spirit of light and truth we must become to glean or prove to ourselves that which remains light and truth in scripture. This being because of corrupting influences to our mortal fallen state.

I do not believe any mortal can provide us with light and truth – only that spirit of light and truth. But I believe that the more we associate with other disciplined by the spirit of light and truth the “easier” it is to comprehend that which is the light of truth and the easier it is to increase our discipline. In my youth I learned to play the guitar but I found that by joining with a group and playing to gather I was able to better increase my discipline of playing the guitar. I also discovered that playing with someone undisciplined that it tended to, over time, in essence, soil my abilities.

To summarize I believe that to connect to the light and truth in scripture – we must become disciplined and influenced by a spirit of light and truth. I also believe that associating with others disciplined and influenced by a spirit of light and truth will greatly add to our ability to comprehend the light and truth of scripture. It is also interesting to me that Jesus called his followers disciples which has the same root meaning as discipline and he ask us to meet together often. I know this post is rather long but it hardly even scratches the surface. I am interested in your opinion and others as well.

I am interested in reading Watcher’s answers to Old Timer’s questions. I just want to add that it would be interesting to commission a gifted writer to attempt to write a book that fits the literary style of the Book of Mormon. With talent behind the effort, I think it would be interesting to see that probably, such fiction can impart spirit and wisdom just as well as the Book of Mormon does.

Back to Old Timer’s questions…