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I saw a post on social media discussing the hate that people in our church receive. Many of the people in the comments were commenting about their own experiences and how they deal with the “hate” (Many of the experiences they described honestly did not sound like true hate to me). Growing up in the church, I’ve encountered many people who seemed to have the mentality that we are a persecuted people. But, that hasn’t been my experience. I’ve only had two instances that could be reasonably considered “hate” because of my religion. Once, when I was a young teenager, another kid my age angrily yelled, “MORMON!”, at me. And he apologized the next day. The other instance was when I was living in California during prop 8. But that’s it. Even on my mission, the most I got was unpleasant disagreement. But those are just my experiences as someone who’s only ever lived in the western half of the country. I have no experience to say if it’s different anywhere else.
I’ve heard sermons telling their listeners that we’re wrong or not really Christians because X. We (or at least our beliefs or history) do get talked about negatively from time to time (Joe Rogan and Simon Whistler come to mind). But, really, all of that is just mild disrespect. I wouldn’t call it hatred. Of course, there are the usual demonstrators during general conference and at temple open houses, but that is the only thing I can think of that could count.
What has your experience been? Have you have experienced hatred or discrimination because you were a member of this church? Do you think that we legitimately are hated by those outside of our church? Or is it just a mentality that has lingered because of our history with persecution?
I have been a member since 1981 but I have never lived in the Corridor. I can’t say that I have ever experienced anything in the way of hate. Back in the 80s/early 90s there were a couple local churches that played The God Makers and I have heard second hand how some churches had anti sermons on occasion, but I haven’t heard anything like that in many years. I might say that my personal experience has been quite the opposite of hate and I usually hear words of respect on the rare occasion the church comes up. Things like “I used to live next door to some Mormons, they were good people, always doing things together as a family.” People also sometimes refer the the flooding we had here about 10 years ago and the Helping Hands effort. That said, I do think the Church in general and perhaps more so members of the church in the Corridor like to play the persecution card with some regularity. They’re generally referring to past persecution but seem to try to relate little things in the present day to then. When was the last time someone was tarred and feathered (or seriously assaulted) for being Mormon? There has been no real persecution of the church since Missouri and Illinois almost 200 years ago. Yes, there have been incidents here and there since then, but they are few and far between (and none in recent history that I am aware of). I honestly don’t think the general population at large care all that much and I don’t think they buy pioneer persecution as an excuse either.
To definitively answer Your original question “Are we as hated as as we think we are?” I’d say “Nope.” I’d also say people care a lot less about us than we think they do. I think they pay little attention to us. I think Corridor members are duped into thinking Deseret News is national news.
There is a current dustup about the proposed temple in Cody WY violating local zoning laws. Some church members are feeling persecuted over it. https://forum.staylds.com/viewtopic.php?p=142517#p142517 DarkJedi wrote:
I usually hear words of respect on the rare occasion the church comes up. Things like “I used to live next door to some Mormons, they were good people, always doing things together as a family.” People also sometimes refer the the flooding we had here about 10 years ago and the Helping Hands effort.
It’s interesting, I hear often about the story of the news caster that thanked both the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints AND the Mormons for post natural disaster clean up operations. We seem to simultaneously feel admired and persecuted. As if the “world” sits back in wonder at what we can accomplish and have accomplished but the “world” also ridicules us. Perhaps there is truth in that. Thinking about the BoM musical, there is both admiration and ridicule embedded within. Now, there is a world of difference IMO between ridicule and hate/persecution.
I think it’s mostly a persecution complex. I don’t think the church is unique in this, it extends to Christianity in general and probably extends into something shared about the human experience. I’m not denying that there is persecution and that there has been persecution in the past but it feels like the bar for feeling persecuted has been lowered. At times it feels like “persecution” is nothing more than having to share space with people that simply disagree with you. Or “persecution” when other people resist the impositions you’re trying to place upon them.
I have worked for Native American tribes for more than 20 years. A few years ago I got a free T-shirt with some prominent Native American faces on it. (side note: I love free swag) I was on a road trip wearing the t-shirt and I stopped at a gas station with my family. There was a group of guys that may have been intoxicated that kept calling me “chief” in a mocking tone.
I have never been personally mocked as a Mormon the way that I was mocked by these fools that thought that I was Native American.
I wonder if it is just general bafflement and politeness. In the early 2000’s, My companion and I were invited to sit with an active Christian woman several times and had good visits with her (and she fed us meals fit for a company dinner!). I asked her why she had been visiting with us (more or less), and she said that she was curious about the types of women that could believe those teachings (priesthood restoration, etc.). The teachings mattered. Our gender mattered. At the time, I was self-righteous and figured “she just didn’t understand” and I “didn’t understand how she couldn’t understand – being involved in churches and all”… When my faith transition hit, I finally understood her initial question. It’s just politeness when you run across a very specific population to mention others from that specific population (who may or may not be legitimately represented) in a neutral or positive light.
You may be right Amy. The Jehovah’s Witnesses have some claim to persecution, although not in the same way as Mormons. There are certainly similar jokes about them and our missionaries knocking on doors, and sometimes people don’t even know the difference. That said, I know several members who have a great deal of respect of Jehovah’s Witnesses and what they’re trying to do. They don’t necessarily agree with their theology, but they respect that they believe strongly and and that they’re out there saying so. The Jehovah’s Witnesses I’ve personally known in my life seem to be good people. But if you are a JW, don’t get on their bad side. I felt on my mission that anti-mormon groups hated us. They really did think we were evil and had impure motives. And they treated us that way. I came out of some of our teaching appointments literally shaking after some of the things they said to us. Shaking in a kind of trauma about the experience. Otherwise I have encountered a lot of people who think we are weird due to our history and due to misconceptions about our beliefs. I wouldn’t call it hate though…more rejection and an unwillingness to change their erroneous beliefs in spite of the truth I told them about what we believe. My father, for example, kept saying over and over that he disagreed with our praying for the dead, as he put it. He refused to believe any of the truth about proxy ordinances for the dead. That kind of misconception and unwillingness to take us at face value after we explained what we really believed. It wasn’t hate but marginalization and a refusal to alter erroneous beliefs about our theology. Once I had fun with it. There was a CO worker who had a lot of misconceptions about us and thought I was strange for believing in Mormon theology. When the subject of Valentines day came up, I said “we don’t believe in Valentines Day”. He said Really???? I kept it going with all kinds of reasons for why we didn’t believe in Valentines day. Eventually I set the record straight but it was so fun to see this intelligent man take my ribbing hook line and sinker since he was operating from the perspective that our belief system was weird. You may have seen a Facebook photograph (probably Photoshopped) appear in your feed for an American supermarket-aisle sign that lists the main items in the aisle as “Beer, Pizza, Potatoes, Guns, Bibles, Sweatpants.” The accompanying user-quote is “The most American grocery store aisle I have ever seen in my life.” As a non-American, I have concluded that your national culture/identity is committed to (or obsessed with) certain principles, values, or ideals that other countries simply don’t care about yet which serve to define who you are and how you view yourselves.
In the UK, I’d say at least 90% of the population no longer identifies with any type of faith, and those who do are viewed either with suspicion on account of the rise of pockets of religious extremism or indifference because they are seen as being stuck in a time-warp.
So, over here — hated? Not at all. We are simply an irrelevance to be used as the butt of occasional jokes.
In my own personal life I have only seen “hate” towards Mormons once. It was in a Bio class in college, and the girl sitting at my lab station went on about how much she hates Mormons and all that. She brought it up because the “Mormon temple” that was being built here was somehow brought up. While I didn’t say anything my heart kind of sank. It made me sad that she feels that way towards members of the church. However I had no desire to seek revenge, or say something mean. But at the same time I tried to understand her POV. This was important because as a member I had an extremely difficult time growing up in the church. I have had people in my early years such as in High School when they find out I’m Mormon say things like “You know Mormons aren’t Christian, right?” But I really don’t view that as hate. It’s just simply a misunderstanding and probably something their pastor repeats on a daily basis every Sunday. So I would never hold it against them.
Other than that experience everyone else is pretty nice about it, or really just don’t care. I try to reverse this and think of it backwards. If someone tells me they are Catholic, Jewish, Muslim , etc how do I react? I don’t really care.
Also is there a lot of anti-mormon discourse online? Yeah — there absolutely is! But there’s also anti-anything online. I don’t see that as persecution. People are mean, and will say their unfiltered opinions online because there’s no recourse like getting punched for said opinnions. (Not implying someone should be punched for their views). Mormons are however an easy target. The media or major figures can get away with mocking us becuase we aren’t going to fight back, and that’s how should always be. But it’s really just best to ignore it imo.
I still remember those chants during that BYU/Oregon football game. It was “F the Mormons”. And it wasn’t the whole stadium. It was maybe 25 drunk Oregon students at most. However I was horrified reading comments on Dnews from supposed members of the church. The comments ranged from revenge seeking by suspending/expelling the students, all the way to boycotting Oregon and their conference. This was shocking to me. I don’t think we as members of the church should react this way. This made me incredibly sad.
I will say I hold mixed views on Mormons too. And I’m Mormon! lol I try not to let it eat me away, but sometimes I cannot ignore my own personal experiences in the church. If you read my previous posts you’d get a good idea. So at the end of the day, I can kind of understand why someone may have negative attitudes towards the church. But I am 100% against any sort of hate. No matter who it’s from. And essentially I don’t think we are hated universally.
DarkJedi wrote:That said, I do think the Church in general and perhaps more so members of the church in the Corridor like to play the persecution card with some regularity.
All. The. Flippin’. Time.
Often times I see this as an excuse within Mormon circles to be exlusive to outsiders.
nibbler wrote:
I think it’s mostly a persecution complex. I don’t think the church is unique in this, it extends to Christianity in general and probably extends into something shared about the human experience.I’m not denying that there is persecution and that there has been persecution in the past but it feels like the bar for feeling persecuted has been lowered. At times it feels like “persecution” is nothing more than having to share space with people that simply disagree with you. Or “persecution” when other people resist the impositions you’re trying to place upon them.
Last night, out of curiosity, I watched a Mass streamed from the parish down the street from me. During the part where the priest gave his talk (not sure what they call it), he spoke about perseverance. Perseverance is needed, he said, because Catholics face much persecution. The primary example he gave as the reason for being persecuted? Having a lot of children. Where is said persecution coming from? From family and friends telling them it’s a bad idea to have so many kids.
I had to smile at seeing that we are not the only ones who have a low bar for what makes up persecution.
I live/grew up in a big city in the bible belt. I certianly dont think I’m winning the persecution olympics but i have been a) uninvited to bday parties as a child after I was found out
b) at 12 I had a bible thrown at my head on the school bus
c)bullied with what I “would put on my planet” in high school
d)and this summer, fifteen years later, was told point blank that I would never be considered for a teaching position at the private school my children were attending (even after the administration sent out a desperation email to the entire school that they didnt have any suitable candidates for second grade and to reach out to their neighbors, friends)
Do I think the same crap happens to a lot of other little boys and girls in the bible belt (and everywhere else on the planet)? Yes. Is it still discrimination even if someone else has it worse? Also yes. Does being discriminated against mean you are only a victim and never been an aggressor in discrimimating against someone else? Clearly not. I also said unkind and cringey things as a tween. I can say homeatly I never had hate or malice in my heart more just a still growing empathy and a bad sense of humor . I think that is probably true of the majority of the people who have said unkind and cringey things to me (not the bible throwing kid. He wanted to hurt me. Which is forgiveable but not excuseable) But their unkindness has also lived in my head for twenty years. So….perception is reality.
Prop 8 was interesting. Our Elder’s Quorum tried to get a friend and I to go door to door to push the Prop. Both of us had public jobs so we declined. Said president, we found out, was calling us queer lovers behind our backs. Reverse hate? I do think some people, aside from Victor Davis Hanson and Richard Dawkins, have a pretty strong dislike for Mormons in general. Yet, unfortunately, I think the hate is returned in some ways. How? It just is.
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