He who shall not be named

I know it’s a delicate subject but in my opinion it’s an important one. Like it or not, political issues weigh heavily on how easy or difficult it is to stay LDS.

I know we like to think that our religious beliefs drive our political choices, that it’s all a one way street, but it’s really a two way street. Our religious beliefs drive our political choices and our political choices drive our religious beliefs. People are going to interpret scripture through their lens to support their beliefs.

I’d like to learn whether the political allegiance that many conservative members so openly demonstrate in favor of their chosen party will be swayed if that party’s potential leader ends up in prison. We can treat it hypothetically, of course, so it applies equally to both main parties.

I don’t see it changing much. At this stage if someone’s mind hasn’t been changed by everything that’s come before, nothing will change it. I know a small handful of members that changed their allegiances in the 2015-2020 timeframe. Post 2020 I haven’t seen many, if any, change their minds.

I’m going to get repetitive here. I know we like to think that facts drive our opinions, that it’s a one way street, but it’s really a two way street. Facts sway our opinions and our opinions sway how we interpret facts.

Hypothetical fact: A political candidate ends up in prison.

From the perspective of someone that doesn’t like the candidate, they got what the deserved. From the perspective of someone that likes the candidate, the whole thing was a plot by the other side to take your candidate off the table.

For the most part, that’s where America is at right now. Supporters have already made up their minds. Detractors have already made up their minds. The rest is everyone interpreting what’s going on in a manner that supports their conclusions. Cognitive dissonance in hyperdrive.

I accept that this thread may still be removed and/or my account may be blocked, but at least I have learnt something.

So I live in the “mission field” where members and politics tend to be a bit different than members in the Corridor. While the majority of members here do lean conservative (or are staunch conservative, and in some cases ardent supporters of He Who Shall Not Be Named – even praying for him in SM), there are also very open and vocal progressive liberals.

That said, I do have family and friends that live inside the Corridor and the perception that all, or even most, members there support said candidate is erroneous. He clearly has supporters there, but many church members there seem to have this great cognitive dissonance referenced by Nibbler. They are conservative and Republican through and through, but can’t support the presumptive candidate. At the same time, they can’t vote for the other side. And, this is limited to members, other conservative Christians face the same dilemma.

It is also interesting what church leadership has (and hasn’t said) on the matter. The church claims political neutrality, but they are far from neutral. They do have to be careful of their tax exempt status, but I think in this case it really is more than that – I think they, like many individuals, have a hard time supporting certain candidates.

It’s a said state of affairs in our country.

That said, we do need to be careful here. There could be people who struggle with the church as it relates to politics, but you’re not one of them Carb. Still, the conversation might be beneficial as long as it is kept neutral.

That said, we do need to be careful here. There could be people who struggle with the church as it relates to politics, but you’re not one of them Carb. Still, the conversation might be beneficial as long as it is kept neutral.

Thanks, DarkJedi. I accept that I may be poking the bear because these may be difficult days for you lot, but I’m only doing so because this situation is so opaque to outsiders (i.e., those outside the North American continent). I suspect the entire politics-and-church entanglement issue is something the rest of the world has scant idea about. Peeling back the layers is really rather enlightening.

I suspect having five viable parties prevents a lot of the black and white thinking that exists when there are only two viable parties.

It creates a whole dynamic where you’re not really voting for your candidate, you’re voting against the other guy.

I’d be tempted to point to ETB as being a huge influence over many American members’ political views.

This is fascinating from an outsider’s perspective. Thanks.

It was only in recent years that I learnt that ETB was in any way a divisive figure. From where I sat when he was at the helm, he was simply the Prophet who went on a lot about reading the Book of Mormon. That was all.

I’m guessing there is a substantial filter that strips away certain stuff when the Gospel crosses international boundaries.

Benson was divisive politically, having been a member of Eisenhower’s cabinet (and unpopular with some) and having been a member of the ultra-conservative John Birch Society.

He was also divisive as church president. You have talked about your fears of when DHO becomes president – there were people with similar fears with ETB. He was an old school hard liner, who would probably still be popular with current old school hard liners even though I think they’re a dying breed. He was not popular with younger more progressive members, of which I was one at the time. My first, although short, period of inactivity in the church was after he became president. Fortunately, his tenure was short lived and during most of it he was incapacitated and left the likes of the very popular and less hardline GBH as the main face of the leadership. Even so, there was a bit of an exodus of less admiring people during the Benson administration. Also worth noting, the only current members of the Q15 who served at the same time as ETB are RMN, DHO, and MRB.

Benson was divisive politically, having been a member of Eisenhower’s cabinet (and unpopular with some) and having been a member of the ultra-conservative John Birch Society.

Thanks for the additional background; those things must surely carry weight with Americans, but I’d wager they are meaningless to the rest of the world. It’s beginning to feel like Donkey’s layers-of-an-onion analogy in Shrek. Outside the U.S., we have far fewer layers. I wonder if that’s a good thing or bad.