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I’m sure I’m not the only one struggling with this. But lately I have been becoming more and more disassociated with the church because of it’s members. I know often times i’ll see members behaving very unchrist like on places like social media and even in real life. I feel like I have just been going through the motions lately. Attending my ysa ward and going to the Temple once per month so I can at least pretend to be active. But this is just really bothering me. I know the feeling. None of us are perfect, it’s just not in the cards. At the same time, I like to feel like the community I’m a part of is headed in the same direction as me.
Like if I want to go to the mountains and the group I’m with also wants to go to the mountains but they keep getting lost, running out of gas, distracted and detoured, maybe even get in a wreck. Contrast that against a group that does all those same things but they’re headed to the beach instead of the mountains.
Church feels like that a lot of the time.
There are places on earth where there are beaches and mountains though.
kotm, I understand what you are saying. There are certain people at church I don’t associate with. There are others I like very much. These are the people I normally associate with. If I don’t see them, I miss them. I think that’s true of other aspects of my life.
Work, neighborhood & community organizations.
Human interaction & associations are complicated & interesting at the same time.
kotm wrote:
I’m sure I’m not the only one struggling with this. But lately I have been becoming more and more disassociated with the church because of it’s members. I know often times I’ll see members behaving very un-Christ-like [way] on places like social media and even in real life. I feel like I have just been going through the motions lately. Attending my YSA ward and going to the Temple once per month so I can at least pretend to be active. But this is just really bothering me.
How can we help?
If you are “going through the motions” and “pretending” – that implies that some part of the equation isn’t working for you, up to your expectations.
Some social situations are just ones that you provide accommodations for in your expectations. Like, maybe you have a friend that you hang out with has an annoying laugh – but they have interesting conversation so you just know that the laugh will annoy you and move on:)
Other situations are ones where “the struggle” is a message telling you to become a change agent – expand ward horizons, talk to different people at the ward, build other supplemental communities, go out on adventures in the world:)
Christians are going to be “un-Christ-like” wherever you go – but not all pockets of humanity are created equal.
Community and socialization matters. Test out other groups. There is no rule that says that you cannot do multiple things at once. There was a time when the all my friends were LDS. I have now reached the point where the LDS church is a very small part of my overall interactions and socialization with people. I still have that connection, but it is no longer my whole world.
I understand how you feel. I’m fortunate to be in a ward that includes many wonderful, caring people. But there are three or four who really rub me the wrong way: one who seems to think it’s his first responsibility to scold everyone and call us to repentance (for not reading the Come Follow Me lesson in advance, for not reporting on our ministering assignments, for not cleaning the building thoroughly enough, etc.); one who makes a point every time he gives a talk, makes comments in class, or bears his testimony, of badmouthing other churches (what might visitors from those churches think?); a former bishopric member who called me once because I hadn’t gone in to tithing settlement and pressed me about a month I had forgotten to pay (“do you want to make that up? oh, so you don’t have the money on hand right now? well then, I guess I’ll have to put you down as a partial rather than a full tithe payer”). I really had to bite my tongue during that exchange. If I had only paid 26 cents I would have been categorized as a “partial” payer, never mind the thousands that I DID pay. That was a very galling experience, because as it is, in terms of both time and money I give the church far more than it’s worth to me. Such moments can really try your patience in dealing with fellow church members. I just try to have as little as possible to do with those who irritate me. When I’m forced to deal with them, I end up feeling much like you, and wonder what on earth I’m doing in that place. Didge wrote:
I understand how you feel. I’m fortunate to be in a ward that includes many wonderful, caring people. But there are three or four who really rub me the wrong way: one who seems to think it’s his first responsibility to scold everyone and call us to repentance (for not reading the Come Follow Me lesson in advance, for not reporting on our ministering assignments, for not cleaning the building thoroughly enough, etc.); one who makes a point every time he gives a talk, makes comments in class, or bears his testimony, of badmouthing other churches (what might visitors from those churches think?); a former bishopric member who called me once because I hadn’t gone in to tithing settlement and pressed me about a month I had forgotten to pay (“do you want to make that up? oh, so you don’t have the money on hand right now? well then, I guess I’ll have to put you down as a partial rather than a full tithe payer”). I really had to bite my tongue during that exchange. If I had only paid 26 cents I would have been categorized as a “partial” payer, never mind the thousands that I DID pay. That was a very galling experience, because as it is, in terms of both time and money I give the church far more than it’s worth to me. Such moments can really try your patience in dealing with fellow church members. I just try to have as little as possible to do with those who irritate me. When I’m forced to deal with them, I end up feeling much like you, and wonder what on earth I’m doing in that place.
The church’s biggest asset is some of its people. The church’s greatest detriment is also some of its other people. Unfortunately some of the latter end up being the loudest and/or hold positions of leadership. Fortunately some of the former do as well.
Recently, a member called me & wanted to talk. This is a person I’ve known for almost 30 years. He is a recovering alcoholic (for many years) and challenged in many other ways that I won’t detail here. He lives many miles from the
chapel, doesn’t drive & would have to take the bus for church on Sunday. The FT missionaries came over to talk to
him & one particular Elder asked about his life & asked why he didn’t go to church or the temple or other activities.
He thought he should be more active & didn’t hesitate to tell him.
He then went on to tell him that he wasn’t living up the covenants he made at baptism or in the temple.
(This was done in the 1st visit they had with him.) The Missionary went on to tell him that he personally was living up
to all his covenants & doing everything he could to be Christ like. And when he looked in the mirror, he (the Missionary) saw
in his own reflection the countenance of Christ. Oh, the arrogance of youth.
I’m glad my friend called me & we had a long, long talk.
This one example that all of us can find as members of the church. My hope is that we don’t extrapolate or generally define all
members the same way. In this one example, I’m glad that my friend called me & we could talk it through. I talked to him again
today & he has worked through this one experience. When this happens to me, I hope I could be as understanding.
When I find myself overwhelmed by negative feelings about the church and wishing there were some way out of it without the inevitable fallout in terms of family life, it helps to remember the ways I’m truly grateful for it. If it were not for the church, I would never have met my wife (and I couldn’t possibly have married better). My mission language became the foundation of a very satisfying career. There was a time in my life when I was on the brink of heading off in a very self-destructive direction, but the church tether restrained me at a crucial moment (in some circumstances, guilt trips can be a very positive thing). I’m grateful for the positive role the church plays in the life of my daughter (who is much more orthodox than I am), and in the lives of my grandchildren. I could mention many other things, but on days when I’m feeling trapped in it and wondering what on earth a closet heretic like me is doing there, it helps to remember those things. (Do I sound like Julie Andrews?) Church members are all across the spectrum in just about every category. I understand the frustration with many, but sweeping stereotypes are damaging. It is important to try to see all sides in as balanced a way as possible. I would like to offer my perspective on this. I too have been blindsided and deeply hurt by the behavior of church members. There was a traditional believer’s discussion forum I started participating in about 10 years ago, and when I offered some of my problems with church members and areas of doubt in the church, there was a group of old timers who wrote a lot of nasty things to me — without receiving any moderation. I was appalled that people who had made such a commitment to be kind to others would behave that way. I eventually deregistered my account and came here – where people are more accepting of alternate points of view.
In my home ward, there was a YW presidency who were really mean to me — going so far as to circulate a nasty note to the entire Ward leadership about me and my weaknesses as a leader. This hurt me deeply and it bothered me for over 10 years. I finally dealt with it with EMDR therapy. I now now feel no need to reiterate what they did and its impact and have moved past this.
Also bothersome to me was how much time it took to be an LDS leader, and how I started a lot of projects that the members never finished. I was frustrated with the lack of commitment and reliability from people who accepted callings.
So, then I turned my service hours to the community for about 5 years. Guess what? I experienced many of the same problems I saw in the church. Not the nasty notes, but lack of commitment and interpersonal conflicts with individual people over the best way to do things. So, the weaknesses you see in church members also exist in other volunteer contexts, particularly related to interpersonal conflicts and lack of commitment.
I wish I hadn’t let the behavior of others affect me so. But it did. So realize you will run into disappointing people in just about any non-profit context.
Church members are also very prone to judgmentalism since we all share a common code of conduct. That comes with the territory of belonging to a church with a lot of prescribed behavior like the LDS Church. And its one reason I think Christ said “Be a light not a judge”.
So, try to overlook their behavior, try to forgive people for their shortcomings, and try to be a light to others amidst their weaknesses.
I hope this helps,
SD
SilentDawning wrote:
So, then I turned my service hours to the community for about 5 years. Guess what? I experienced many of the same problems I saw in the church. Not the nasty notes, but lack of commitment and interpersonal conflicts with individual people over the best way to do things. So, the weaknesses you see in church members also exist in other volunteer contexts, particularly related to interpersonal conflicts and lack of commitment.
Yeah, like old timer says, people are gonna people.
From Elder Uchdorf:
Quote:Every day I meet Church members who are filled with a radiant joy and who demonstrate in word and deed that their lives are immeasurably enriched by the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
But I also recognize that there are some who have a less-than-fulfilling experience—who feel that their membership in the Church sometimes isn’t quite what they had hoped for.
This saddens me because I know firsthand how the gospel can invigorate and renew one’s spirit—how it can fill our hearts with hope and our minds with light. I know for myself how the fruits of the gospel of Jesus Christ can transform lives from the ordinary and dreary to the extraordinary and sublime.
The church experience really really works for some, and it really really doesn’t work for others. I believe that it works best for those that find a sense of belonging, affirmation, structure, and community in a relatively homogenous group. I believe that it works less well for people that are on the margins and can be a negative experience for groups that are excluded or othered.
I think the church as an organization with specific teachings and a distinct culture works for some people for some parts of their lives. I think it’s important to remember that it is more “seasonal” and less “individual-specific” – mostly to provide an accurate picture throughout time. There are times that the church commitment hasn’t worked for my mom, and isn’t working for me. As near as I can tell, the church commitment has worked for my dad since he joined the church back in the 70’s – but that doesn’t mean he has had had the same level of commitment or engagement. In talking to both parents, those times that my mom wasn’t attending were magnified by post-partum depression (which my dad never experienced directly to the same degree) and my dad was able to explicitly compartmentalize the exclusion and “othering” being offered to him – he was there for the doctrine, not the human-ing humans.
Roy wrote:From Elder Uchdorf:
Quote:Every day I meet Church members who are filled with a radiant joy and who demonstrate in word and deed that their lives are immeasurably enriched by the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
But I also recognize that there are some who have a less-than-fulfilling experience—who feel that their membership in the Church sometimes isn’t quite what they had hoped for.
This saddens me because I know firsthand how the gospel can invigorate and renew one’s spirit—how it can fill our hearts with hope and our minds with light. I know for myself how the fruits of the gospel of Jesus Christ can transform lives from the ordinary and dreary to the extraordinary and sublime.
The church experience really really works for some, and it really really doesn’t work for others. I believe that it works best for those that find a sense of belonging, affirmation, structure, and community in a relatively homogenous group. I believe that it works less well for people that are on the margins and can be a negative experience for groups that are excluded or othered.
You know I love Elder Uchtdorf, and if he had a fan club I’d be the president and head cheerleader. But this is another of those multitude of instances where the church/church leadership conflates the church and the gospel. The gospel (of Jesus Christ) does still work for me, I find hope in the gospel, and I can be and often am uplifted by studying and learning the gospel. I can’t say that about church attendance or participation, especially when the focus is not on the gospel of Jesus Christ. Sadly, our church worship services and other meetings are far too often focused on something else and that’s the problem. I recognize the top leadership is doing better, and even down at the ends of the some of the rows things are better than they were 20 years ago. But it’s not really at the ends of the rows yet, and, I know I’m being critical, counting the number of times Jesus is mentioned in GC as opposed to 10 or 20 years ago isn’t really it. It’s more than talking the talk, we’re not walking the walk yet.
One of the things that I have learned and re-learned over the years is that you do not have to be a Christian (a literal believer in Jesus Christ) in order to have/create radiant joy and a rich life (though it can help people to do so). I think that you have to believe in a force in the world “greater then you” (thank you AA) and that you have to be able to have good interactions with others where you give good to them and they give back good to you in a balanced and sustainable way. At the loosest framework, this is an interpretation of the “2 Great Commandments” upon which “hang all the law and the prophets” (which is really mentorship and counsel written down as tradition and in-person guidance & support).
I have found that church culture puts LDS church membership as the requirement for ultimate happiness, Christianity as a lower (but “OK” ish) tier of happiness, a Non-Christian but “of the book” tier of happiness (ish – sometimes), and then everyone else (though grouping Buddhists with anti-religion pagans and Atheists with Agnostics and Deists for example shows how cultural stereotypical assessments can get a bit wonky).
It’s funny, I do things that are tagged as what “Good Christians” do, and my husband or my mother are like, “that’s the Light of Christ working on her” and I’m like, “No, that’s not it – Jesus Christ has nothing to do with this. I don’t see how God has anything to do with this”. And they they get a long-suffering expression and are “Sure Amy, Sure”. It’s such a weird conversational pattern because I am telling them the last thing they want to hear to their face while doing what they feel “a good Mormon” does. I don’t get mean about it or anything, but I also don’t back down in my assessment that I don’t see the influence of Jesus Christ or God in the decision-making process I went through and I don’t feel anything that I would code as “inspiration” at the time either.
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