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Has anyone experienced in their ward that these 3rd hour councils on the 1st of each month are working good and producing good things? I like the idea of actions to help members. Will this work?
Hard to say. I attended one in a different unit than my own and… we ended up taking turns reading from church materials. No difference whatsoever than any other Sunday. I suspect it will take several months, if not years for us to get out of old habits. I got an e-mail summary from my PH quorum’s council. Sounds like I didn’t miss much. Apparently they talked about letting the people that should be in PH but can’t attend because they work in primary know what’s going on during PH. How that filled up the 40 minutes I couldn’t guess.
Full disclaimer, I don’t see myself attending these councils in the future. I’ll find something else to do with that hour.
Ours didn’t work well. The intention was good, the practise less so. Ours was fine as I expected it to be – things like that are right down our HPGL’s alley and our group responds well. Today we talked about what we want to do for future ones and sort of laid out some common rules (no criticism of others’ ideas, etc.). I understand there are concerns in many places, especially in elders quorums. Side note, I am assigned to give a presentation about these councils at stake priesthood in a couple weeks. I would appreciate input from here about your experiences, good or bad.
Mine actually turned out really well. I very much like the idea, but I’m not surprised that some wards don’t have any clue what to do with them. My presidency was commenting on how it would take adjustment and it wasn’t really geared towards YSA wards, but I think since we’re so young and not bound as much by habit and tradition, it was much easier for us to ditch a traditional lesson and have a productive discussion. There was a lot of talk about home teaching and some on dating, sure, but there was also a lot of talk about becoming better friends and being more unified as a quorum. One guy even brought up how his testimony was all over the place from day to day- something I can very much relate to.
HPGs will be the slowest to change. YSA EQs/RSs will probably be the fastest and will probably get the most benefit out of it.
Ours was great. We talked about areas of focus where we could help people in concrete ways. I am optimistic about where it will go. Beefster wrote:HPGs will be the slowest to change. YSA EQs/RSs will probably be the fastest and will probably get the most benefit out of it.
I’m not so sure it will be toughest on HPGs. I have visited many, and the level of teaching and discussion is consistently higher than elders quorums I have also visited. Most of the “old guys” (I was ordained a HP at 32) aren’t afraid to express their opinions and open up discussion. I agree that YSA wards will readily adjust because they tend to already be open to discussion and already generally less orthodox. I love when I visit our YSA branch for that reason. In my area the toughest ones, and the ones who have expressed the most concern, are the EQs. Again, I have visited many of them in this area the level of teaching and discussion generally leaves quite a bit to be desired – to the point it has been a fairly frequent topic of discussion in stake council.
I asked my wife how it went in RS yesterday and she said it was good but couldn’t recall specific discussion items (apparently her mind was preoccupied). This particular RS has a very orthodox president and some very orthodox instructors, so I was expecting resistance to change which still could happen.
At the conclusion of our council I asked what we should be prepared to discuss next week and got no definitive answer. Another person suggested that in the upcoming trial text message* this week the HPGL could also give the topic for next week and he thought that was a good idea (seeing as how his leadership doesn’t seem to have planned that far yet).
*We decided the best way to get the message out about our council discussion topics was text – while not all the old guys have email, they apparently do all have text messaging. Go figure.
:wtf: We started our meeting by saying that the stake had a suggested lesson schedule for us but the global church leadership had said that it should be up to quorum leadership based on quorum needs so we would not be following the stake program. We then spent a fair amount of time going over the teaching assignments for the next 6 months (who and what GC talk they would be teaching).
The teacher’s improvement class was discussed and that all teachers are invited to attend (Reminded me of SD).
Near the end a list of prospective Elders was handed out and we were told that we should go over the list and be prepared to talk about how to reach out to them next time.
It kinda reminded me of a presidency or planning meeting but for the whole quorum.
I asked DW about RS. She said that they went ahead and taught a lesson on service. She believes that there may be some hesitancy for the RS presidency to show up without a lesson prepared as it might look sloppy or thrown together.
All in all, I believe there will need to be continued training on this in order to make it effective.
I see it as an opportunity for the quorums and groups to make plans. Everyone is together, as much as possible, so it’s a good time to set goals, review progress, make assignments etcetera. But it takes some leadership skill to do it. You have to understand how to direct participation into productive, meaningful avenues, how to filter out suggestions, let the best ones rise to the top, overcome cynicsm, make action plans, and use judgment to make sure any plans actually get implemented. SilentDawning wrote:
I see it as an opportunity for the quorums and groups to make plans. Everyone is together, as much as possible, so it’s a good time to set goals, review progress, make assignments etcetera. But it takes some leadership skill to do it. You have to understand how to direct participation into productive, meaningful avenues, how to filter out suggestions, let the best ones rise to the top, overcome cynicsm, make action plans, and use judgment to make sure any plans actually get implemented.
About what?
Maybe it will take time…but for now…it feels like everyone just repeats the same thing…do home teaching and go to the temple. What is this council supposed to produce?
Last week felt like the dumb leading the blind. And we walked away with not much, as if the teacher forgot he had to teach and was just winging it…which…was pretty much like every other week.
2 hour blocks. Let the ward leaders council 3rd hour, but let the rest of us go home. Is it possible our quorum council meetings agree to that? No? Okay…that’s what I thought…same ole same ole
Heber13 wrote:
SilentDawning wrote:
I see it as an opportunity for the quorums and groups to make plans. Everyone is together, as much as possible, so it’s a good time to set goals, review progress, make assignments etcetera. But it takes some leadership skill to do it. You have to understand how to direct participation into productive, meaningful avenues, how to filter out suggestions, let the best ones rise to the top, overcome cynicsm, make action plans, and use judgment to make sure any plans actually get implemented.
About what?Maybe it will take time…but for now…it feels like everyone just repeats the same thing…do home teaching and go to the temple. What is this council supposed to produce?Last week felt like the dumb leading the blind. And we walked away with not much, as if the teacher forgot he had to teach and was just winging it…which…was pretty much like every other week.
2 hour blocks. Let the ward leaders council 3rd hour, but let the rest of us go home. Is it possible our quorum council meetings agree to that? No? Okay…that’s what I thought…same ole same ole
About What? Local needs. Or the mission of the church. As you say, people get so distracted by home teaching and the other hard stuff (hometeaching and temple) that never changes. Or changes for a while due to the commitment of a few people who carry the group….
It needs to be based on local needs, and, in my view, it involves using concepts from planning we find in professional management, adapted to the unique, volunteer context of the church.
here are a few tracks to run on…the possibilities are endless. You can be purely participative to somewhat directive in what is discussed.
Participative…1. Use the first Sunday in Jan or Feb to poll the ward about what they feel is needed in the Ward to improve its ability to further the purposes/mission of the church. A survey could be created to focus on community, spiritual atmosphere, unity, execution of programs, quality of the talks and lessons, temple focus, etcetera…..the list is endless. Based on this survey, pick the items that seem to have the most support/relevance to the Ward. Use these items as areas of focus in the 1st Sunday meetings. Significant power comes from having a unified discussion across groups and quorums, each contributing to how specific areas could be improved. Don’t have too many focus areas though, when you start talking about how to improve…
2. Simply exposing the passions people have for their service in their church. I’ve noticed some people love service to the community, others like simple social activities to get to know each other and build unity. Some like to serve the Ward through more enriching social activities like music concerts etcetera, Use the time to find areas of passion for service and ignite them…
More Directive1. In the various groups, give them a blank sheet of paper with each of the four purposes of the church on it. have them brainstorm what they think might be done in each category to meet the needs of the members.
Even More Directive1. Have the Ward council agree upon areas of needs for the Ward, and then disseminate these to the various groups. Have these groups then discuss ways they can improve on these areas.
2. Alternatively, the leaders of the individual groups and quorums decide what they think the needs of the group are, and discuss those, making action plans…and using the first Sundays to follow up.
So, there is a two phase process — arriving at what the most important needs are in the Ward or even specific quorum group. Second, working together to meet those needs and improve them through reports and follow-up and continued improvement and discussion of those plans.
Let me give examples of the endless list of needs wards can have — that I have seen in many different Wards over time.
1. So many baptisms it’s hard to fellowship the people all and keep them.
2. Teen pregnancy and young adult immorality
3. A lot of marriage break-ups
4. Lack of commitment from members to callings
5. Lack of unity — cliques but no real sense of community.
6. Poor temple attendance.hometeaching (the ever present problem)
7. Low referrals from members for investigators
8. Declining Sacrament meeting attendance/increasing trends to less activity among members
9. Burgeoning prospective elders who reach adult age and are never ordained.
10. Youth getting into trouble with the law on a more-than-isolated scale
11. Youth not signing up for missions.
12. Poor seminary attendance
13. People worn out from having 4 different callings in wards that are strapped for people.
14. Sundays that aren’t uplifting.
15. People with a lot of welfare needs and financial problems.
16. Lack of strong gospel knowledge by the membership in general….
17. Discussion of needs as articulated by the Stake leaders for the stake, a well as regional issues.
18. Plans and assignments made, but weak follow-through….
19. Burnt out active people who need a pep talk, a break or a refresher — conversation could be on how to do make this happen and make time for sef-renewal.
And the list goes on….
the needs are endless, even in Wards that may have some higher functioning than others (I served in one such Ward, and while there was strong programs and follow-through, there was no emotional connection or sense of deep community, just a community of doers, that bothered some people).
So, I think the problem you are seeing is that people/leaders are learning how to use the time effectively. I think professional managers would have no problem using the time. And i think it’s a breath of fresh air really….
I will say this — having an hour a month or so to set plans, review progress, and march toward a common goal is a gold mine for the leader who wants to improve their Ward. I suggest people give it time and let people find themselves in it. Let the upper leadership figure out who how to train everyone better in how to do it, etcetera. it is a change for the memgbership, and a positive one — give it time to mature and become part of the culture.
I am working on an article on effective home teaching….and one of the principles, suprisingly, is to not focus too much on it!!! Yes — focus on areas of service and contribution that brethren find interesting and exciting. this builds trust with the leadership, energizes the quorum, and provides opportunities for greater activity. I like what the savior said — the poor you will always have with you. I look at ineffective home teaching programs as the poor in our suite or permanent programs in the church. Don’t get so bogged down in them that you remove all the joy and passion people naturally bring to their Wards!
Those are good points SD. Perhaps my frustrations are I already feel we make announcements in SM, at the beginning of class, opening exercises for Priesthood, and now this whole class. So inefficient. So boring. Such a waste of my time…and now we are doing MORE??
I want less planning and meetings and talk. I want a religion of action and learning. I want more time with my family.
Maybe those are my local needs. It’s frustrating if I have to go to council to participate in discussing less of that very thing.
If I skip…will the council understand my needs more? I am not sure what to do. Probably nothing. Just nod for them trying to do something.
I have a feeling based on last meeting that others in my HPG are in a different place than me anyway. I’m on my own on my journey. Thus…counseling doesn’t seem to meet my needs at the moment. Perhaps it will help others
Heber13 wrote:
Those are good points SD.Perhaps my frustrations are I already feel we make announcements in SM, at the beginning of class, opening exercises for Priesthood, and now this whole class. So inefficient. So boring. Such a waste of my time…and now we are doing MORE??
I want less planning and meetings and talk. I want a religion of action and learning. I want more time with my family.
Maybe those are my local needs. It’s frustrating if I have to go to council to participate in discussing less of that very thing.
If I skip…will the council understand my needs more? I am not sure what to do. Probably nothing. Just nod for them trying to do something.
I have a feeling based on last meeting that others in my HPG are in a different place than me anyway. I’m on my own on my journey. Thus…counseling doesn’t seem to meet my needs at the moment. Perhaps it will help others
What I’m suggesting goes way beyond announcements. If done well, It is the use of church time to actually plan and distribute work to the quorum in a way that is truly meaningful to them. It’s a means of involving less involved members in the actual planning of the work of the group/quorum/auxiliary. It is efficient use of time as well. How many times have we heard that we can’t use church time, Sunday School, priesthood meetings, to do quorum business? That has always frustrated me because it means people have to stay after church, hungry, frustrating their families, or hitching rides. Or meet during the week.
Now, we can have our entire HP quorum meet on a Sunday and discuss how we are going to work together to do the most important things for our families and wards — unconstrained by distant programs imposed on us that are often not relevant to us, and that we had no hand in crafting.
It also represents decentralization of decision-making and authority, with an efficient block of time dedicated to it. I have always been a proponent of local choice — one reason I love our founding father’s principle that government should be as close to the people as possible. To see that happen on the local level is a breath of fresh air!!! Taken with the teachers’ council, which also provides a certain amount of local authority, it is another step in the right direction. We often criticize the top-down, authoritarian style of leadership we see in the church. Now is a bit of a swing in a different direction.
I think we should be celebrating it and hoping the higher ups see lots of benefits that encourage them to keep blessing it and making it part of our culture.
When I was HPGL, what they are doing is exactly what I did with the first Sundays in my quorum, most of the time. And it was very effective when used to involve the quorum in planning, assignment-taking, volunteering, and following up with reporting to bring plans to life.
The infrastructure is there now for some very empowering, autonomous decision-making by local leaders and their rank and file members in the stewardship. Let’s hope the time is used effectively to bring it all to life!!!
Yeah… SD. None of that stuff interests me. Perhaps I’m just not cut out for this religion thing, perhaps I’m as burnt out as burnt out gets but… Those needs aren’t my needs. That’s part of what makes church so miserable, we only talk about what we need to do for the church and usually it’s discussion surrounding some metric that has absolutely no bearing on my life.
E.g. Temple attendance. Temple attendance is down? Sounds like that’s more of a problem for someone that’s worried about their next temple utilization report… but I don’t care. I get that it might be important for people that can benefit from temple attendance… but if they benefited so much from temple attendance they’d be attending the temple. But here I am, sitting in PH where the teacher is talking about how important it is to attend the temple… but they’re not that interested in attending either, they’re just up there talking about how important it is because they’re the teacher and that’s their job.
And the discussion never goes deep. Usually it halts at “we need to attend the temple more” and that’s the beginning, middle, and end of the discussion. Church isn’t the place to have a real discussion about temple attendance.
“What prevents us from going to the temple?”
Busy lives and satan are pretty much the only acceptable answers. We don’t have a discussion that starts out, “I don’t really like the temple…” or, “I’d like to go to the temple to do [activity], can we change the temple experience to include [activity]?” Nope.
I’m singling out temple attendance to illustrate how the church doesn’t rise to the needs of the individual, at church we expect the individual to rise to the needs of the church. Is it surprising that people lack commitment or enthusiasm in such a one-sided relationship? That’s just temple attendance. I could say this for over half the stuff on your list.
As you can see, I’m jaded with all our church talking points. They’re boring, uninspiring, and we’re nearly always talking about how to meet
manufacturedneeds… and… and… 👿 👿 👿 nibbler wrote:
As you can see, I’m jaded with all our church talking points. They’re boring, uninspiring, and we’re nearly always talking about how to meetmanufacturedneeds… and… and… 👿 👿 👿
Don’t let my list imply that it’s your list though. I said the list was limitless….The monthly meetings, if designed well, should give people a chance to voice what they think are broad needs in the Ward. And these needs may well go beyond the standard mormon needs we hear about constantly anyway.
Also, if done well, there is respect for the people who want nothing to do with such meetings!
I used to hold these 1st Sunday meetings regularly, throwing out the lesson schedule — when I was HPGL. (See how far ahead of my time I was!!!
😆 😆 ). And when it was time for people to commit to action, I made it clear that if people didn’t feel they had the interest, desire or bandwidth to take on any responsibilities or assignments, by all means, claim that right. There was no censure from us as leaders — only respect for their status as volunteers.Of course, part of that desire on my part to promote “freedom to do nothing” was the fact that I knew from long hard experience that certain brethren wouldn’t lift a finger even if we paid them. People will do, what people will do. Having them actually voice that choice up front was effective in focusing our efforts on the people who wanted to contribute.
I intend to go to the next one to see how our HPGL does it. I am not expecting much. He’s a former Bishop but seems to think leadership involves standing up and talking to everyone non-stop. Not my idea of “sitting in council over local needs”.
And by the way, I think such a meeting could involve nothing but listening on the part of the leadership as well. Sometimes it’s good to do that. It provides good fodder for when leaders have to make decisions that are clearly in their purview…
I would also add that having leaders listening to their membership is a step in the right direction. I’d much rather be voicing some concerns about needs in the Ward than sitting through another expose on the Plan of Salvation, for example. Change is wonderful…
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