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Thanks, mom3. I enjoyed it, too – seeing that there’s so much activity in this area. LDS people are so social and tightknit. When things are clicking, it seems to me that our default setting is to love and include. Quote:The goal, Terryl Givens said in an interview after the devotional, was to remind conferencegoers that the inescapability of suffering is fundamental to Mormon understanding of mortality.
“As Elder Marlin K. Jensen so compassionately pointed out years ago, the particular challenges — quandaries — that face gays within our faith community are unique, but there may be more in common with the crosses they bear and the crosses that many other constituencies bear that it’s good to be reminded that we all are confronted with feelings of alienation, of isolation, of not being understood, of not being recognized, of not being witnessed,” he said.
I think it’s great that we’ve reached the point where LDS people will really start talking about LGBT issues. But if I were gay, I don’t think I would take much comfort in the bottom line. Maybe I’m wrong; maybe there is a comfort in what the Givenses are teaching that surpasses the hurt and loneliness, and makes a life without dating, courting and marriage in the LDS church not just doable, but desirable. I just try to imagine how I would feel at the end of the day. They see a bleak beauty in it all that I don’t.Or maybe: LGBT members come out of the wings, meet each other, date, marry in ceremonies that their mainstream LDS family attend, have children that their mainstream LDS family love, etc. And then what is there to say?
For me, it was less about LGBT and more about the Givens’. My conviction that the church is often changed from the outside continues to grow, and I am watching with curiosity where the church will move as people like Bushman and Givens’ continue to give voice. It is this Christ center, Universal Religion/God thing that strikes me.
They didn’t really address LGBT, neither did Steve Young when he spoke a year or so ago. So I wonder are the Givens and Young just working to push the boundaries of our religion toward a more Universal slant or what? I just keep watching the Givens’ move, give firesides, get their work published through Deseret Book, etc., is there an unseen current that will heal our divides better than the head to head battle that is the outward model today.
mom3 wrote:For me, it was less about LGBT and more about the Givens’.
My conviction that the church is often changed from the outside continues to grow, and I am watching with curiosity where the church will move as people like Bushman and Givens’ continue to give voice. It is this Christ center, Universal Religion/God thing that strikes me.
To mix up threads, anybody want to put some $ on some REALLY long odds of Bushman and Givens for the next to apostles?
Quote:To mix up threads, anybody want to put some $ on some REALLY long odds of Bushman and Givens for the next to apostles
Oh man would I be stoked if that happened. I would even promise to be happy for a full six months.
:clap: Sorry, I was not getting it. I thought they were addressing LGBT issues. I’m all on board for the more expansive view AND for apostleships. Never say never?
Quote:Sorry, I was not getting it. I thought they were addressing LGBT issues.
No apologies needed Ann, I don’t think you were wrong. I think they were trying to address LGBT issues. I remember in one of John Dehlin’s podcasts hearing him ask Terryl directly about LGBT, and I believe Terryl stated they needed inclusion, love, etc.
I am the person who thread jacked the article. I saw the article on Wendy Montgomery’s face book, she is the leader of the Mama Dragons and is taking advocacy seriously. So I sense that LGBT members were addressed directly.
For me and I feel like I am scaling a huge religious wall, something like El Capitan, some days the hand holds are obvious and easy. Other days I am having to cram my fingers into millimeter fissures to move forward. I think the church as an entity is in the same boat. As a climber and a spectator I am curious about the Givens/Bushman efforts and watching to see how far they can push the boundaries for all of us.
You didn’t miss anything the article, the talks, etc. were all directed at LGBT and helping it climb up the sheer cliff that is ahead of them.
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