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I really like the idea of that. There is no reason (that I am aware of) a blessing to start a school year or for comfort needs the priesthood. Roy says, “If there is value to the endowment, how can I dismiss the value to its “second half?”” What I understand about the endowment is centered on the idea of potential. It also has a very egalitarian feel to it: the desire for all to be included, the fact that we each go through the process in the same way, etc. For me the question is, given what I understand and value of the endowment, how can I respect and take seriously it’s second half? It doesn’t matter that I will never, ever lay eyes on it, it now colors the part I do see. I’ve known about the Calling and Election made sure for some time, I heard about it when I was probably 10 or 12 from my dad who was in the bishopric. We even talked about it in seminary. I had thought it was performed only by the big 12 for the big 12 and so I was surprised to hear about mere stake presidents receiving it. There is a site online where you can find the supposed wording to it although it’s impossible to verify its correctness. I’ve read that part of the ordinance is performed in the home, which I actually think is kind of cool.
To be honest with you, it doesn’t really strike me as more presumptuous or strange than sealing for time and eternity or marrying someone else’s spouse.
johnh wrote:Roy wrote:4) To expand on reason number 3, I feel some sadness that women who are about to deliver are no longer blessed and administered to by members of the relief society. I believe that legalistic misunderstandings were to blame for this. I am therefore reluctant to decry other ordinances for similar legalistic mis-applications.
What the cr@p? Women used to bless moms ready to deliver? Ok…I want some details.
Basically – some individuals felt that these women operated as a function of the temple priesthood (the same way that women officiate for other women in the Anointing in the temple), some felt that they were sharing the priesthood with their husbands, and some felt that it was a simple “prayer of faith.” Repeated inquiries to church leadership as to exactly what authorises these women to carry forward the tradition were eventually met with the discontinuation of this ordinance.
http://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/115-6-30-43.pdf Ann wrote:Roy says, “If there is value to the endowment, how can I dismiss the value to its “second half?”” What I understand about the endowment is centered on the idea of
potential. It also has a very egalitarian feel to it: the desire for all to be included, the fact that we each go through the process in the same way, etc. For me the question is, given what I understand and value of the endowment, how can I respect and take seriously it’s second half? It doesn’t matter that I will never, ever lay eyes on it, it now colors the part I do see.
I understand your frustration Ann. Would it help if you viewed the temple experience as a metaphor for our mortal soujorn and the second anointing as representing our eventually being welcomed home (not terribly dissimilar to passing through the veil into the Celestial Room)?Quote:Repeated inquiries to church leadership as to exactly what authorities these women to carry forward the tradition were eventually met with the discontinuation of this ordinance.
I believe strongly in the concept of “shut up and don’t ask”.
Old-Timer wrote:I believe strongly in the concept of “shut up and don’t ask”.
Amen to that. Best way to get shut down is to ask permission. Love Colin Powells Take on this….specifically “If I haven’t explicitly been told
‘no,’ I can.”
http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/apjinternational/apj-s/2011/2011-4/2011_4_02_powell_s_eng.pdf ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://www.airpower.au.af.mil/apjinternational/apj-s/2011/2011-4/2011_4_02_powell_s_eng.pdf Quote:“You don’t know what you can get away with until you try.”
You know the expression “it’s easier to get forgiveness than permission?” Well, it’s true.
Good leaders don’t wait for official blessing to try things out. They’re prudent, not reckless.
But they also realize a fact of life in most organizations you ask enough people for
permission, you’ll inevitably come up against someone who believes his job is to say “no.”
So the moral is, don’t ask. I’m serious. In my own research with colleague Linda Mukai, we
found that less effective middle managers endorsed the sentiment, “If I haven’t explicitly
been told ‘yes,’ I can’t do it,” whereas the good ones believed “If I haven’t explicitly been told
‘no,’ I can.” There’s a world of difference between these two points of view.
What I understand of it takes it out of the realm of metaphor and crashing rather indelicately back into literalness. I know these are all good people. My mother is a good person. My mood right now is…..”whatever.” I don’t think I should comment any more on this.
But I learn a lot here and I look forward to reading, not just on this topic. Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving!
ihhi wrote:The more someone has to look outside of the church for answers to church questions, the less they will trust the church.
I can’t help but opine that the effects of our information age will either bring this practice out into full light for the membership, or result in its discontinuance. Secrets do not aid missionary work.
I had heard about it in the days of Joseph Smith, but thought if it was practiced at all today it was reserved for GA’s only. I could see it being pulled back to that level, if it hasn’t happened already.
Quote:In the circular facsimile from the BOA, there is an explanation to part of it saying that it is to be revealed in the temple. When I had the opportunity to meet with the temple president inside the temple, I asked him about it. He said he didn’t know and I believe him. I believe that some things are fully explained to people in leadership positions.
A little off topic, but before my dad went on his mission all the missionaries that were about to leave had a meeting with a member of the 12 (long time ago with much fewer missionaries). They were allowed to ask questions, and so my dad asked about these. The leader said not to ask.
Quote:FAIR is confident that no faithful Latter-day Saint would want to learn about such a sacred matter from unauthorized sources.
This kind of nonsense makes me really angry, it sounds like something that the Soviet Politburo would come out with to cover its own secrecies and deficiencies.
Quote:I find the blurb at FAIR patronizing.
It encourages both ignorance and paranoia.And what do non-members make of this kind of thing? It only panders to conspiracy theorists’ wilder ideas and downright lies.
Quote:FAIR often receives questions about a temple ordinance called “the second anointing.” The questions usually revolve around the following issues:
1.”What is the second anointing?”
2.”Is this account of the second anointing that I’ve seen accurate?”
Actually my question is “who has it?” (presumably seventies and/or apostles), and “how do you get it?”
Old-Timer wrote:Women used to bless in lots of situations.
Frankly, they still can – as long as they don’t use consecrated oil and invoke the Priesthood by name. It’s called a “prayer of faith” or a “mother’s blessing” or just about anything else it can be called, and I would love it if we did it more throughout the Church. There is great comfort and power in “the laying on of hands” – regardless of how formal it is and whether or not it’s part of an officially-recognized ordinance of some kind.
Be careful who they tell about it though… I read a blog about a sister who gave a mother’s blessing and she told her visiting teachers about it and they told the Bishop. Next thing she knew she was in a Bishops Court and disfellowshipped!! And they told her if she didn’t deny that she was inspired to give it, she would be excommunicated.
almostgone, while I know there are some Nazi local leaders in the Church, I would have to know much more about that situation (the details of it) to believe it. So many things get condensed, abbreviated and altered when they are explained after the fact – either intentionally or unintentionally. This thread is a perfect example of why myself and so many other members have become so cynical. Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
I have done several posts on Mormon women healing by the laying on of hands. My most recent post is http://www.mormonheretic.org/2011/02/19/stapleywright-discuss-healings-by-mormon-women/ cwald wrote:This thread is a perfect example of why myself and so many other members have become so cynical.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
Yes, I’m afraid so, but I hope this tendency is beginning to die out.
We have our own perestroika and glasnost, it’s called the internet. If the members don’t put stuff out there, other people will…
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