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August 17, 2016 at 8:18 pm #210932
Anonymous
GuestMy wife and I had a nice discussion as she brought this article to me and we read it together (…and I thought I’d never do companionship study post-mission )
Type 1: Stalwart and Stubborn Mormon (TBM)
Type 2: Curious but Furious
Type 3: Stalwart but Curious
Of the last type, he writes….
Greg Trimble wrote:This is the sort of Mormon that is firm in their faith but always open to discuss different points of view. They’re looking for truth and willing to accept it even if it contradicts their current views. These are the Mormons that are truly learning and growing as they combine their faith and intellect to navigate through tough times.
These Mormons are more interested in helping people than they are at “being right.” They are better at listening and understanding than they are at speaking and postulating. This type of Mormon has no illusions of the church being perfect, the people or leaders being perfect, or the history being 100% accurate as it’s recorded in a 1980’s Sunday School manual.
I think this is more common in seeing these “types” of mormons in our church, and less black and white, faithful vs doubting, spiritual vs intellectual. But more open to a blend of things in our times.
Do you agree that more “blended” types are seen and talked about in our wards these days, as opposed to 10 years ago?
I also found it interesting to have him characterize the way the 2nd type “Furious” included an impatient element:
Quote:In many cases, this type of Mormon is right about various aspects of church history but many times doesn’t stick around long enough to see the issue rectified in the upcoming manual. The curious Mormon now becomes a furious Mormon and believes they’ve been lied to maliciously for all these years…
Perhaps this point is why I think StayLDS.com can be a source to help for those who need to hold on long enough that changes slowly come about. In other words, the things that bug us are real, not made up or because we are anti-mormon. The issues are real…but they may take time in the church to get fixed.
Do you agree with that idea also…that some things take time and need patience to work through it personally while the church bureaucracy works through it silently?
Thoughts on this?
August 18, 2016 at 1:55 am #314077Anonymous
GuestI am excited by all the different variables of Mormons that are floating to the top. Thomas McConkie’s new ones, now these. With each book and article we are opening up the discussion. I don’t have more to comment on. I only hope his blog gets some generous readers. It might help all of us. August 18, 2016 at 2:00 am #314078Anonymous
GuestThe “gotcha” comeback would be: as of December 31st, 2015 there are 15,634,199 types of Mormons. Now that that’s out of the way:
This article didn’t really do it for me. It’s hard for me to explain why. I feel like the thrust of the article is a plea for more people to become a stalwart but curious Mormon whereas I’d rather people be the type of Mormon they already are, just more accepting of other Mormons who are also being who they are. In other words, enlarge the stakes of big tent Mormonism as opposed to picking up all the stakes and shifting the whole tent over by a few feet. Maybe that’s hardest for the stalwart but stubborn Mormon but it’s a bridge everyone must cross if it’s going to work.
I’m not a fan of the gatekeeper scriptures intended to keep people in the fold. Anyone can start the craziest of religions and toss in a “in the last days people will say this is the craziest of religions” and then point to it as an “I told you so” whenever someone points out how crazy the religion is. Let’s look at what I consider a gatekeeper scripture that was mentioned in the beginning of the article:
D&C 112:23-26 wrote:Verily, verily, I say unto you, darkness covereth the earth, and gross darkness the minds of the people, and all flesh has become corrupt before my face.
Behold, vengeance cometh speedily upon the inhabitants of the earth, a day of wrath, a day of burning, a day of desolation, of weeping, of mourning, and of lamentation; and as a whirlwind it shall come upon all the face of the earth, saith the Lord.
And upon my house shall it begin, and from my house shall it go forth, saith the Lord;
First among those among you, saith the Lord, who have professed to know my name and have not known me, and have blasphemed against me in the midst of my house, saith the Lord.
The day will come where a darkness that covers the earth will start in the lord’s house, so stay true to the faith. The problem is that this scripture gets us nowhere. The orthodox members are too busy pointing their fingers in the direction of the dissenters and the dissenters are too busy pointing their fingers in the direction of the orthodox and no one is asking, “Lord is it I?”
It’s helpful to remember that the three types of Mormons are not static nor discrete groups. One person can be all three over the course of their lifetime.
Quote:Where the stalwart but stubborn Mormon might shun or ignore these topics and go about his or her business, the curious but furious Mormon might jump to wrong conclusions on incomplete information from less than reputable sources and make rash decisions regarding their faith. Once a person has made a rash decision, human nature and inherent pride makes it very difficult to reverse that decision for fear of seeming “wishy-washy.” Most of the time, when someone makes a rash decision, they end up getting behind their decision 100% regardless of whether they know if it was right or wrong.
That’s probably what makes the curious but furious Mormon so furious. People telling them they jumped to the wrong conclusion, their source was not reputable, they made a rash decision about their faith. We don’t validate the curious but furious, we drive them mad. What is the right conclusion? What is the right decision? Can we be at peace with the decisions others make for themselves or must we insist that they take another look until their conclusions and decisions start to look more like our own?
Quote:In many cases, this type of Mormon is right about various aspects of church history but many times doesn’t stick around long enough to see the issue rectified in the upcoming manual.
I hear they are going to have a new program for adults for Sunday School next year. See what I did there? How long will we ask the curious but furious to wait? The stalwart but stubborn are in charge of producing the manuals and they are perfectly content to stagnate on “…a host of other similar titles that were published between the 1970’s and 1985” or “a 1980’s Sunday School manual.” Can we blame either of the curious groups for bailing after they see that next year’s SS lessons are just a repetition of the same lessons that have already been given a half dozen times?
Do we have patience with the curious but furious that is commensurate with the patience that we ask of them?
It’s hard to say much about the stalwart but curious. They’re painted as the gold standard in the article but the article does mention (in different words) that this group could not exist if not for the other two. There’s room for each group, each group is necessary and plays its part in the evolution of belief.
August 18, 2016 at 2:34 am #314079Anonymous
GuestI do like to shine a light on things from different angles. No one angle illuminates everything, but some angles can help you understand something better than you may have seen it before.
Heber13 wrote:Thoughts on this?
I just can’t seem to get past a thought that keeps staying at the front of my mind, “Where are the top leaders of the church leading out on the faith crisis issue and the underlying issues that cause most of these?” DFU has been the most and all he said was vague “mistakes have been made” and the fact that such an obviouse statement was a big deal says a lot. I hear more scare tactics from the top leaders than actual answers, or even compassion towards the honest struggle for integrity that those having a faith crisis are experiencing.August 18, 2016 at 12:30 pm #314080Anonymous
GuestLookingHard wrote:I just can’t seem to get past a thought that keeps staying at the front of my mind, “Where are the top leaders of the church leading out on the faith crisis issue and the underlying issues that cause most of these?” DFU has been the most and all he said was vague “mistakes have been made” and the fact that such an obviouse statement was a big deal says a lot. I hear more scare tactics from the top leaders than actual answers, or even compassion towards the honest struggle for integrity that those having a faith crisis are experiencing.
We often talk of diversity (or lack thereof) among the Q15. The color of one’s skin, their nationality, and their gender are outward things that are easy to pick up on. What about diversity of belief? Jesus knew how to succor his people because he suffered what his people suffered. This is a top down church, what if the three types of Mormons were represented among the Q15? People in the Q15 belonging to each of the 3 types of Mormons identified in the article to ensure that the needs of all Mormons are both represented and met.
Five David A. Bednars
Five J. Golden Kimballs
Five Dieter F. Uchtdorfs
To be a fly on the wall during one of their meetings.
August 18, 2016 at 4:09 pm #314081Anonymous
GuestIf they then also allowed “dissenting opinions” to be released like the supreme court, I would LOVE to see the ones from some of the J. Golden Kimball types. But on a more serious note, I think we need some Chieko Okazaki types – along with other women. But an argument could be made that there are female types of the 3 types listed (well none of the J. Golden type women have moved up much in the church).
August 18, 2016 at 4:54 pm #314082Anonymous
GuestStage 2.5 – Unsure about / disagrees with some things but willing to continue to participate and engage for various reasons Of course, that is too long for a list that requires short, catchy descriptions.
August 18, 2016 at 5:00 pm #314083Anonymous
GuestOld Timer wrote:Stage 2.5 – Unsure about / disagrees with some things but willing to continue to participate and engage for various reasons
Of course, that is too long for a list that requires short, catchy descriptions.

Aware but there.
August 18, 2016 at 5:03 pm #314084Anonymous
GuestQuote:“Aware but There”
This, folks, is why we allow nibbler to continue to post here.
:clap:
August 18, 2016 at 6:14 pm #314085Anonymous
GuestLookingHard wrote:If they then also allowed “dissenting opinions” to be released like the Supreme Court….
I would love that!Re. the Trimble article, I like that he’s broaching the subject. Kinda bugged me aesthetically that he re-used “Curious.” But it gets the discussion going, like Richard Bushman’s labels for disaffected members. He says they fall roughly into “switched off” and “squeezed out.”
Aware but there.
:thumbup: August 19, 2016 at 5:42 pm #314086Anonymous
GuestOld Timer wrote:Quote:“Aware but There”
This, folks, is why we allow nibbler to continue to post here.
:clap: 
I thought it was because of all of his Nibbler “selfies’.
August 21, 2016 at 12:27 pm #314087Anonymous
GuestI’m a little late to the party here, but I can’t say I fit firmly into either of the categories. I firmly don’t fit on one but I’m probably a hybrid of the other two. -
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