Home Page Forums General Discussion 4 Great Posts on the Middle Way

  • This topic is empty.
Viewing 4 posts - 16 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #332466
    Anonymous
    Guest

    The conversation continues with Sam Brunson at BCC: https://bycommonconsent.com/2018/11/06/on-my-middle-way-mormonism/

    The comments are very useful to the discussion. Here are a few I really enjoyed:

    What is the middle way?

    Quote:

    “Seems like “middle way” Mormonism has been around a while! Indeed, I think the members that *truly* perceive only black and white are rare, and even a lot of those we might perceive to be on the extremes turn out to be “middle way” when we know them well enough to know what their individual issues and concerns and compromises are.” Abbey

    How it feels to be middle way:

    Quote:

    “Recognizing the expanded middle doesn’t resolve any of these issues, because the tension many middle wayers experience is because *everyone* doesn’t recognize this expanded middle, and they certainly don’t accept it. That is, the loneliness of the Middle Way cannot be evaporated simply by forcing others in the same box, because those others will push back at any implication that they are also in the Middle Way (or, rather, that even if they are, that theirs is anything like yours.)…Anyway, all of these things make “muddling through the middle” a lot less comfortable for many people — especially when they become aware that they can no longer profess the sorts of beliefs that were comfortable for them in the past, and were comfortable in their ward environments. … I want to emphasize that any worthwhile definition of the Middle Way to me must include people who are acutely aware of these and other types of issues, and whose continued engagement with the church must reckon with these issues, rather than setting aside these issues as someone else’s problem, a historical concern, a concern somewhere else but not in this ward, etc.” Andrew S

    Trying to size up these “belief demographics”:

    A more narrow definition:

    Quote:

    “No, we’re not all Middle-Way Mormons. That claim just rejects the relevance of the whole discussion at W&T. There are some who decide to simply leave the Church, either disappearing into complete inactivity or executing a formal termination of membership. They are plainly not MWMs. And there are many who have no interest in LDS history or doctrinal shifts, who at first encounter think the Gospel Topics Essays are anti-Mormon productions, who don’t watch football on Sunday, who pray over every meal, who believe everything that’s printed in the Sunday School manual, who say yes to every calling, and who believe everything they are told in Conference, even the contradictory statements. Not MWMs either. I’d put MWMs at about 5% of the active LDS population.” Dave B.

    A broad definition of middle way:

    Quote:

    “if you’re talking anecdotally, I’ll counter you with my anecdote: upwards of 90% not only are Middle Way Mormons, but know they are. Of course, I live in a liberal city that isn’t the native home of many Mormons, so I recognize that my surroundings aren’t necessarily representative of Mormonism at large….If we understand and expect that all of the ward members around us are making moral choices about how to engage in Mormonism, we’re not going to assert that most are essentially ignorant and dumb sheeple, accepting uncritically everything. Instead, we’re going to recognize that everybody is fighting to be good and to fit into a large, one-size-fits-none organization in hopes of bettering themselves, their neighbors, and the world around them. And we can be empathetic to the fact that the choices they’ve made may differ from the ones we’ve made, and that doesn’t make them bad people or bad Mormons.” Sam Brunson

    A different definition of middle way:

    Quote:

    “if everyone is middle way, then nobody is. From my perspective, perhaps a better term would be “Tightrope Mormonism”, because I see the middle way as being a bit of a tightrope act, trying to balance the pull of the former confidence since disintegrated, with the pull of being authentic to one’s beliefs in an environment frequently hostile to such candor. As a result, I see some sort of trauma as being (mostly?) necessary to be in the middle way. Perhaps there are varying degrees of the trauma’s severity, but there had to be some sort of internal battle/struggle/wrestle where a choice is made, against an opposing inertia, to remain in and try to make it work.” Cody Hatch

    A moderate estimate:

    Quote:

    “I’ll throw my anecdotally driven hypothesis into the ring. As percentages of adults in the pews on a typical Sunday:

    >5% middle way and open about it (me on the back bench, open collar tailor-made blue shirt, about whom the teacher and everyone else has an idea what they’re getting if they let me speak)

    >20-30% in addition, middle way and working their journey mostly in silence (the people who thank me for an anti-exclusion policy “testimony” that they felt but were unable or afraid to say themselves)

    >And then I’d go 50/50 on the balance–the balance being those who are satisfied with (Andrew’s) ready-made shirt–50/50 between those who welcome me and those who would rather I wasn’t there.” Christiankimball

    Comparing to survey data from “Next Mormons”:

    Quote:

    “For the purposes of this discussion, the data from Jana Reiss and Benjamin Knoll’s “Next Mormons” survey may be helpful. They divided active members into two categories: Faithful and Obedient (62%) and Relaxed but Engaged (38%). I suspect we’d find most middle way examples in the “Relaxed but Engaged” group. https://religioninpublic.blog/2018/09/26/the-two-kinds-of-american-latter-day-saints-a-mormon-typology/” Mary Ann

    Why it’s so hard to size:

    Quote:

    “I sit quietly, or give orthodox answers. I am definitely a middle way Mormon who reads blogs like these to stay sane….The more orthodox you look, the less likely a friend or neighbor is going to let their guard down around you.” Mormom

    Why the labels are harmful:

    Quote:

    “I’d much rather have somebody identify himself as a Middle Way Mormon than leave the church. But for me, personally, I hate these labels, because I refuse to believe that my recognition of institutional fallibility makes me a second-class citizen in the kingdom of God. I don’t believe it makes me any kind of hyphenated or asterisked Latter-day Saint. I don’t believe that it does so for anyone else, either. I believe that the Latter-day Saint prophets and other leaders that church members most revere today were themselves acutely aware of the church’s fallibility and institutional weakness. And I think labeling members who have doubts or recognize institutional weakness as anything other than normal, mainstream, Latter-day Saints perpetuates and strengthens the false idea that a person must reject the notion of institutional fallibility to be a member in good standing.” JKC

    Are a substantial number of members pretending to believe?

    Quote:

    “I wonder if Church membership is a little like membership in old communist Russia when they said: “We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us”. Is it like that? Do we pretend to believe and they (leadership) pretend that we do? I think most members of the Church, if they are honest, have some real doubts and concerns. But I think that these doubts and concerns are NOT represented openly during the three (soon to be two) hours we share at church. People keep these things to themselves within a ward, only confiding in their close friends where it’s safe. Thus, it appears that everyone is a “believer” or “all in” when in fact that probably is not the case. And keep in mind, I’m talking about the 50% who is there. The other 50% didn’t even show up.” Josh H.

    In defense of not sharing doubts:

    Quote:

    “Is this rooted in a cultural tradition that assumes that one must only discuss positive things to be uplifted? … I guess I’m just trying to say that perhaps we don’t have as many people discussing doubts and concerns in church because people are trying to build each other up (in their estimation), not just that doubt and concern are silenced.” Mr. Schmidt


    Why “cafeteria Mormon” is a fraught term:

    Quote:

    “I would state my objection to the term “cafeteria Mormon” like this: to my ears, it trivializes the experience of conversion and faithful perseverance. I don’t just choose my beliefs and religious practices on a buffet line. The way it feels to me, my religion has chosen me as much as I have chosen it.” Loursat

    Anyway, lots of great discussion on that thread too.

    #332467
    Anonymous
    Guest

    And today another new post by churchistrue: https://wheatandtares.org/2018/11/08/the-churchistrue-middle-way/

    This one might resonate with me the most of all so far.

    #332468
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Thank you for keeping this going Hawkgrrl. I am too busy to read both blogs. I am deeply appreciative of your posting and collecting. I do love the topic. For me the name issue really ramped the challenge.

    It seems small, but we are a very outwardly judging church, connection roulette (not just leader) really comes into play. Right now the verbalizing of what we call ourselves is the biggest public marker.

    I hold a Stake position. It’s very prominent in my Stake. It gives me leverage and people listen to me. They may not agree, but there is a deference that I am happy to take advantage of.

    Last Sunday I was talking to a new ward leader, in my position and calling, she used Mormon, then retracted it. Right behind her was an old friend and present Bishop’s wife. I said, “I am a Mormon.” Both women gulped, eyes wide open. I continued on very lightly, with a big smile and said, “I have 7 generations of pioneer Mormon’s in me. There is no way anyone can take that from me. I wouldn’t take it from them. It was the banner they lived under.” The Bishop’s wife smiled and nodded. The other woman, not so sure.

    Inside I really don’t give a crap what we are called. To me, that was Joseph’s point in taking the moniker and making it on our own. It’s one of the things I like about him. I do want us to make Jesus Christ our center. But now it’s been varnished in this sinful, judgmental, “The prophet said” deal and I all want to do is yell “Nope.” “Not Even Once”.

    How this fits with the Middle Way Discussion, it’s one of the public things we do that make the barriers between those “No T.V. on Sunday” members and the “We love the Superbowl” – we carry those sticks loud and proud. I don’t mind Totally Devoted Members. I just want them to not mind me. I want to be Middle Way and ask them “Get off my lawn.”

    #332469
    Anonymous
    Guest

    mom3 wrote:


    Thank you for keeping this going Hawkgrrl. I am too busy to read both blogs. I am deeply appreciative of your posting and collecting. I do love the topic. For me the name issue really ramped the challenge.

    I hear ya:)

    I actually try not to refer to the church at all for this very concern – but that could be my snarkiness showing 🙄

Viewing 4 posts - 16 through 19 (of 19 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.