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January 27, 2014 at 5:55 pm #208423
Anonymous
GuestInteresting article. http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/5-really-bad-reasons-leave-your-church The 5 reasons (you can skim the article on your own):
1 –
I’m not being fed. You should be a contributor, not just a consumer. 2 –
It’s getting too big. Mormon equivalent might be feeling you don’t have close friends in your ward. 3 –
I don’t agree with everything that’s being preached. We’re all learning and growing and making mistakes, no matter our position. Staying adds diversity to that process. 4 –
My needs aren’t being met. The church doesn’t exist to meet your needs but you exist to meet the needs of the world through your church. 5 –
Unresolved conflict. Repentance, forgiveness and grace are all the process of becoming like Christ. Leaving when we experience conflict shortchanges our growth. I think for many of us, #1, #3 and #4 are the biggest reasons we struggle with. What do you think of the author’s arguments?
January 27, 2014 at 6:03 pm #279570Anonymous
GuestInteresting. I think 3 and 4 could be valid reasons.
Obviously some doctrinal differences matter enough to cause a split otherwise a whole lot of folks would still be Catholic, right?
And while I’m a big fan of being a contributor, I do believe that there should be some reciprocity. Zion doesn’t impoverish you (spiritually or materially) to elevate your neighbor. It enriches both of you. While I could make an argument about Christ becoming impoverished to make us rich (indeed, Paul already did), I do believe that a church, if it is attempting to be a community should meet the needs of all participants to the degree it is able. Ideally, those needs should be met as part of meeting the needs of the world.
But those are just thoughts on the synopsis – I may rethink the position once I’ve read the article. LOL.
January 27, 2014 at 6:53 pm #279571Anonymous
GuestI’m still wondering about ‘3’ – is it ok to keep going to church if you reach a different conclusion? What if you know the message being taught to your kids lacks nuance/open-mind… simply a “do it/obey” approach to the world? If I ever leave, it would most likely be because of something like ‘3.’
January 27, 2014 at 9:39 pm #279572Anonymous
GuestWell, the author was a pastor (which I find interesting in and of itself). I wasn’t sure I found the reasons super convincing. I agree there needs to be some reciprocity, although it occurs to me that maybe that’s partly generational. I think my parents’ generation operates much more based on duty and respect for authority than I do. I tend to operate based on my personal values and being skeptical of authority. January 27, 2014 at 9:46 pm #279573Anonymous
GuestQuote:3 – I don’t agree with everything that’s being preached. We’re all learning and growing and making mistakes, no matter our position. Staying adds diversity to that process.
Reading this again, I think I might adapt my previous comment.
I already don’t agree with
everythingthat is said at church. But I’m still there. If ever I get to the stage that I don’t agree with anythingthen it will be a problem. I don’t think even some of the most T or TBMs agree with everything preached and they don’t up-sticks and leave. I know they sometimes don’t agree with everything said because I “add diversity” and sometimes even get to “preach.” January 27, 2014 at 10:22 pm #279574Anonymous
GuestI don’t like #1 at all. Many of us are here because we contributed long and hard for many years and got burned out. Also #1 perpetuates the myth that if you’re not happy in the church, it’s your fault, by implication. Also, people go through phases of being a feeder and feedee. The other thing that statement does is remove accountability to the church to provide a good experience. If anyone can show up, do a terrible job consistently, and its the member’s fault if its bad, it encourages mediocrity.
The others, maybe…i had trouble thinking about them because 1 hit me like a ton of bricks.
January 27, 2014 at 10:50 pm #279575Anonymous
GuestLike SD, I found #1 not terribly satisfying. I did laugh at the part that said, “Remember, your call is not just to be a disciple but to make disciples” but then I realized he probably wasn’t talking about the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth. I was more troubled, though, by #4… especially when he said, “the Church actually isn’t about you. It’s about Jesus. It’s his Church. He came for it. He died for it. He redeemed it.” Yikes. These statements make the LDS church ego-centrism look tame. Somehow I have a hard time picturing Jesus of Nazareth saying anything like this. PS, I think he died for the ungodly, so that they might be raised up to a new life (see Romans).
All in all, I think the author makes some good points, but carries it too far. I think every one of the ‘bad’ reasons he gives are perfectly valid reasons if they are serious enough.
January 28, 2014 at 2:04 am #279576Anonymous
GuestI pretty well disagree with every part of this article. I think, if carried to far, all of these are valid reasons to leave your church.
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January 28, 2014 at 3:56 am #279577Anonymous
Guestcwald wrote:I pretty well disagree with every part of this article.
I think, if carried to far, all of these are valid reasons to leave your church.
I pretty much agree. On the other hand, it is nice to see that the attitudes of church leaders towards the activity level of their congregations isn’t an LDS-specific phenomenon.January 28, 2014 at 6:09 am #279578Anonymous
GuestYes, I’m always fascinated to see what other faiths are talking about in terms of retention. They all seem to be concerned about it. January 28, 2014 at 6:12 am #279579Anonymous
Guesthawkgrrrl wrote:Yes, I’m always fascinated to see what other faiths are talking about in terms of retention. They all seem to be concerned about it.
Yes that’s true. I think it’s easy to forget that other faiths have people who struggle with doubts and other issues.
January 28, 2014 at 10:39 am #279580Anonymous
Guest#2: I always enjoyed my time in a branch. It felt more like a family, we felt more united. Sometimes I felt very insignificant in large wards. Sure we can strive to be the church of billions but it can still be organized to reach people at a more intimate level. The church does a fairly good job of this, we max out at the ward level while other churches can go the path of megachurch. Still, some people really enjoy the megachurch atmosphere. Not a reason for me to leave, but I can understand it. #3: Hop from church to church or just walk away from all churches. I guess I don’t see much wrong with that if that’s the path one’s spiritual journey takes them.
#4: I
completelydisagree with #4. Jesus didn’t die for the church, he died for you and me. Part of what a church does should be to communicate that… to people with needs. #4 makes a huge mistake, #4 is assuming that people don’t have any needs at all, that people reach a point where they only fill needs. Why present it as either or? You can both have needs filled and fill needs, it should be a mutual thing because there’s spiritual benefit in both giving and receiving. Develop charity in giving, develop humility in receiving. Also, the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.
January 28, 2014 at 4:31 pm #279581Anonymous
GuestBad reasons to leave the church – * The architecture of the meeting house is too bland.
* The M&M is too carb heavy.
* You don’t like the Men in Black franchise or the X-Files.
* They haven’t fixed the toilet for weeks.
* There are too many books in the church.
January 28, 2014 at 6:20 pm #279582Anonymous
GuestQuote:#4: I completely disagree with #4. Jesus didn’t die for the church, he died for you and me. Part of what a church does should be to communicate that… to people with needs. #4 makes a huge mistake, #4 is assuming that people don’t have any needs at all, that people reach a point where they only fill needs. Why present it as either or? You can both have needs filled and fill needs, it should be a mutual thing because there’s spiritual benefit in both giving and receiving. Develop charity in giving, develop humility in receiving.
Also, the sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.
I love this, nibbler. Totally agree. I think it’s telling, though, that a pastor would gloss this over, because obviously, he’s called to bolster the church. That’s the genius of Mormonism, too. We are all in the potential role of pastor. We are all called to bolster up the church. So if you aren’t getting what you need, double down and serve more. Right? Eventually people burn out on this advice, and you are right to point it out.
Quote:They haven’t fixed the toilet for weeks.
This might be good cause for inactivity, though.
Quote:The architecture of the meeting house is too bland.
We’d ALL leave the church if this was cause.
January 29, 2014 at 4:59 pm #279583Anonymous
Guesthawkgrrrl wrote:Quote:They haven’t fixed the toilet for weeks.
This might be good cause for inactivity, though.
Quote:The architecture of the meeting house is too bland.
We’d ALL leave the church if this was cause.
Amen Sister!
(Our toilet -or one of them – was blocked up for weeks. You gets what ye pays for, or not, in our case!!!)
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