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Most of you will be aware of what’s gone down in my life in the last few weeks. I’ve really appreciated all the comments and support. I updated my blog last night, musing about heterodoxy and whether there is a place in church for people who struggle with doubt.
I’ll be adding this to my FB page at some point, so any advice before this happens would be welcome.
It was well-written. I didn’t know the MK Jensen made this comment: “The overriding impression I get is that people are generally afraid to tackle these issues. It’s no wonder really that the church is facing the “biggest time of apostasy since Kirtland” (Marlin K Jensen).”
When did he say this? In what context?
Also, I thought it was interesting that the people who question are well-educated and have above average incomes. I’m not sure what to make of this. Some will say that above average earners are stiff necked and hearts set on riches, or that the learned are foolish and think they are wise.
On the other hand, the church encourages education and indicates you can have riches if you seek them if you seek the kingdom of God at the same time (which in my experience, doesn’t always happen, by the way).
Another interpretation is that if you want to have unwavering faith, you need to be poorly education and without an above average income. And I don’t like the sound of that either!
Hi kristmace I’ve added the first reply to your blog
Given that my wife reads your fb entries it will be interesting if she reads and identifies my response.
I actually caught her listening to John Dehlins presentation you linked to on fb a while back and even heard her discussing the impact this has on real people with her family. Your missionary efforts are bearing fruit…
Thanks for the comments. The demographics of that survey fascinate me. I think the main concern from leaders will be that the educated, high income, returned missionaries are traditionally the future leaders. These are the stalwart members who are leaving, not the sidelined financially unstable people on the periphery.
The Marlin K. Jensen quote has done the rounds a few times. There’s some more information about it here:
http://mormon-chronicles.blogspot.co.uk/2012/02/discussion-of-mormon-apostasy-spreads.html I’m really glad your wife watched that video Rich. I think it should be essential viewing for all members. I’ve posted it on FB at least twice, so it’s nice to hear that it has had an effect on at least one person!
I don’t think Facebook is the place to discuss religion and faith crisis…or talk about personal issues with the church. Just my opinion
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But I like what you had to say. Read several posts from the site. Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
What cwald said, in both comments. There is almost no better way to start a s***storm than to post something like this on Facebook.
cwald wrote:I don’t think Facebook is the place to discuss religion and faith crisis…or talk about personal issues with the church.
Just my opinion
(I do nothing but read on Facebook – no personal information.)
But I don’t understand how the church is going to ask people to get on Facebook and talk about their faith, but insist that their faith look a certain way. Don’t they want people who stay despite historical problems talking about it? They don’t want anyone to leave, but they won’t let them describe how to build a different faith. Lots of people who disagree with the church’s stance on homosexuality hold callings and serve to their utmost. They want everyone to work, but not express themselves.
Ann, I think we have to distinguish between “The Church” in this sort of conversation and “church members”. My hesitancy about using Facebook to discuss politics and religion has nothing to do with “The Church” but everything to do with many (not close to all) “church members”. I just don’t like creating fights with people I need not fight – and I see posting something like this on Facebook absolutely as (probably) leading to unnecessary battles.
When I look at a simple cost-benefit analysis, I see basically no good whatsoever from it – and lots and lots and lots of potential bad.
This is just my opinion, I think you should post whatever you want as long as you are willing to deal with the backlash that could transpire. It already seems like you have dealt with a backlash, part of me would hate for you to deal with anymore drama. I’m not sure how this current situation you are in kristmace impacts you and your family on a daily basis. Are you not afraid of getting dragged back into the Bishop’s office again?
Sorry to say this, but I would hate to be in your shoes right now. Being publicly outed and possibly viewed in a negative light by my fellow ward members would really bother me. While I don’t agree with every policy the church or church members advocate, I really respect, enjoy and appreciate my fellow Mormons.
I think every Mormon who is disaffected/annoyed etc.. with the church has to be careful with what we say and write considering church culture and procedures. It is hard for me to say that because I am a big believer in free speech and being genuine.
However, I support you fully in whatever route you want to take kristmace. Best of luck!
Just to repeat…I think the blog posts were very well written. I will follow it. What I dont think is a good idea, is putting stuff on Facebook that Mormon family and members will see, just because they are “friends”. It makes one look like an apostate whether one is or isn’t. And they probably don’t want to read it or think about it.
Same goes for TBMs…If I want to know about your religious views, I’ll ask. Please quit putting your temple pictures and lds prophets quotes and pics on the Facebook feed were I’m forced to see and read them. It makes you look like self righteous Jackasses, whether you are or are not.
See. At least I’m fair.
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Old-Timer wrote:
I just don’t like creating fights with people I need not fight – and I see posting something like this on Facebook absolutely as (probably) leading to unnecessary battles.When I look at a simple cost-benefit analysis, I see basically no good whatsoever from it – and lots and lots and lots of potential bad.
I’m wondering if it has to be a fight. What if someone wrote about how the Book of Mormon inspires them, even though they don’t believe it to be a historical record? Must that lead to a confrontation? But I definitely take your point about fighting just “because we can.”
Good luck, kristmace! I hope you will find the right balance.
Ann wrote:Old-Timer wrote:
I just don’t like creating fights with people I need not fight – and I see posting something like this on Facebook absolutely as (probably) leading to unnecessary battles.When I look at a simple cost-benefit analysis, I see basically no good whatsoever from it – and lots and lots and lots of potential bad.
I’m wondering if it has to be a fight. What if someone wrote about how the Book of Mormon inspires them, even though they don’t believe it to be a historical record? Must that lead to a confrontation? …..
Blahahahaaaha.
Sorry. I couldn’t help it.
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Thanks again for the support and advice. Given that my ‘coming out’ (as a doubter, not a homosexual!) has been very public, I feel that my response should be very public. In writing this blog I wanted people to understand things from my perspective without sounding bitter. It’s really hard for people like me/us in the church and hopefully I made it clear that I’m doing my best in regards to the church and that the tattling hasn’t helped. Maybe it’ll open some peoples eyes to realise that there’s lots of us, and we need to be accepted or the church could become a very quiet and lonely place!
cwald wrote:I don’t think Facebook is the place to discuss religion and faith crisis…or talk about personal issues with the church.
What cwald said. I find it frustrating when “friends” post their political or religious views, because I feel like they are using our friendship to further their agenda.
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