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kristmace, I want you to know that I fully support your efforts to sort things out, and your blogging about it. I do simply want to point out that you are probably creating many of the barriers you are now finding. In you blog you wrote:
Quote:It would be nice to know which of my beliefs has caused such an issue, but I am constantly faced with family and leaders who for whatever reason, don’t wish to discuss these with me in any detail.
You must understand that it’s going to be difficult to have a frank conversation with someone if they believe that they will simply wind up as a subject of your online posts. I say this as an online friend, but if I were your bishop, I wouldn’t want to have much contact with you, because you have already made him a matter of online conversation, and not anonymously, because people who know who you are, and who your bishop is, are following your blog and posts. My only purpose in pointing this out is to try to provide another perspective. If you want people you know to be open with you, you have to be willing to do it “off the record”. It’s up to you to provide an assurance of trust.Quote:You must understand that it’s going to be difficult to have a frank conversation with someone if they believe that they will simply wind up as a subject of your online posts.
This.
I’d agree with the sentiment of this discussion. Imposing my faith transition on others is something I’ve avoided. There are a few people who have asked sincerely having picked up on hints. I’ve shared quite a lot with them and have had a variety of responses.
I’ve not enjoyed my faith transition. I don’t feel the need to upset others.
Your blog is very well written and is well-balanced. I’d suggest it’s something to share with people who ask. But not ‘pushed’ on the uninterested.
Also, as a professional market researcher, Dehlin’s research only tells us what people think who are engaged in the issues of intellectual/history issues already. Most of the respondents came from his many 1000s of followers. The questionnaire design is also flawed.
I still find the research very interesting. But I wouldn’t call it “Why people leave the church” – I’d instead call it “Which of the issues are considered the biggest issues by those who have lost their ‘one true church’ and follow Dehlin.”
By the way, your blog mentions ‘fees for ordinances.’ That’s a new one on me. mackay11 wrote:By the way, your blog mentions ‘fees for ordinances.’ That’s a new one on me.
I would be afraid that comment in particular would get kristmace dragged back into the Bishop’s office and possibly alienate himself from people at church. Just my two cents.
I just read more, after reading the “fees for ordinances” comment. If you pick a fight with inflammatory words, don’t cry if someone swings back – even if you didn’t start the first fight.
Frankly, I think a turned cheek is the best approach at this point.
Kris – I know you probably feel like you’re coming in for a little criticism here. I suppose the tone and intention of this board is a little different to some of the others (e.g. NOM). I use both, but this one a lot more. I’m aware of the different objectives and tones of each. I think the point of this one (particularly the point of the most active mods on here) is to find a way that fits and works. The (often frustrating) implications of this is that the middle-wayers often seem to be the ones who have to sit quiet. I know the experiences of Ray suggest you don’t have to sit quiet, but I think he’s the exception not the rule.
I had a bit of an outburst in sunday school the other week. It happens occasionally when I’ve bit my lip to the point of almost bleeding. I’m not yet ready to be a campaigner. I’d prefer to maintain relationships… for now. I realise that may come at a cost. Sometimes the cost is simply keeping my counsel. Other times it feels like the cost is my integrity.
I’ve recently been teaching 10yos in primary. I’ve had to spend a lot more time than usual finding a way to both teach with integrity and not say anything that might upset the parents.
This weekend is word of wisdom… that’ll be an interesting one!
Thanks again for the continued insights. I agree that a ‘turn the other cheek’ approach is best here. I’m keeping my head down at church, which is probably a wise move, especially when I don’t particularly want to be there at the moment. What has happened can’t be changed and dragging it up again and again won’t help.
I guess there are serious drawbacks to having a public religious melt down, and I imagine most people are as fed up with it as I am! I did prelude the blog when I posted it to FB by something along the lines of “you know what you’re getting now, read if you’re interested…”
Ray, would you mind expanding on the ‘inflammatory words’. That wasn’t my intention, but my DW has said before that sometimes I don’t word things in the best way that portrays my meaning.
Kris where is your blog and CWALD, what is this video you speak of that everyone should watch?
DBMormon wrote:…
and CWALD, what is this video you speak of that everyone should watch?
?
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I use Facebook to ease people in to new viewpoints. I think it is an excellent tool to enlighten people. I do not do Facebook rants though…I try to remember that anything on my main wall could be available forever to everyone on the planet…so I make sure overtly emotionally charged subjects are kept low key. I do post articles I like that I WANT my nephew s nieces to read. I want younger kids to know that their uncle is not biased against gays, believes it is ok to marry outside the temple at first, to read real history, to read other philosophy, etc. They don’t hear it in church or in homes and iv think many need to know there are adults out there to talk to.
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I mixed stuff up. Kris said Quote:I’m really glad your wife watched that video Rich. I think it should be essential viewing for all members. I’ve posted it on FB at least twice, so it’s nice to hear that it has had an effect on at least one person!
thought you said it. figured out video was Dehlin
DBMormon wrote:Kris where is your blog
Link is in the OP.
http://liberalbritishmormon.wordpress.com/ There are 3 entries to my blog.
1. Arguments in favour of same-sex marriage. This was going to be a private FB message to someone in my ward who I was having a lovely intellectual discussion with. I thought my long reply was quite coherent so should be shared.
2. Is it OK to disagree? I wrote this after successfully being interview for a Temple Recommend in April. Bishop and I had engaged in a long discussion about sustaining leaders, and I had thought a lot about how I concluded that I sustained them despite disagreeing on certain policies and also recognising mistakes made in the past.
3. Dealing with faith struggles and heterodoxy. This was the entry from a couple of weeks ago where I consider if there is a comfortable place in the church for people like us who hold opinions different from the mainstream.
I’m not intentionally a blogger, and I certainly don’t intend to update this blog regularly. I had no agenda when I started, and I don’t want it to be a personal moaning space as I re-evaluate my faith. I do think it can be a good outlet for some positive thoughts on how I’ve dealt with and worked through issues. My last entry was really well received by my Mum.
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