- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Quote:
I have found there has to be at least a minimum level of commitment – or at least, tasks people assume that match the time they commit to provide up front.
Yep. I agree. 100%.
Fwiw, I comment on whatever I have time to address, based on prioritizing everything I see when I log-in each time – because, ironically, I’m a volunteer here.
mom3 wrote:SD – I hear, I think, what you are asking. On paper and in utopian living it sounds great. Real life though is different.
In my experience with volunteers of any kind – it’s the carrot that drives the commitment. Whether from a board member to a peon. Sometimes when I sign up to do something, my heart really does want to support it, I start out great, then suddenly life gets in the way. Before I know it, my own commitment to something I believe in, has dropped out/off.
Even with orientations etc. There is no guarantee, I won’t get sidelined – unless the carrot is enticing enough for me to not postpone my commitment.
Sorry I took so long to answer you question SD. it has been a busy few days. I quoted Mom3 because she gives part of my answer. I think people do commit with all the right intentions and really wanting to serve, but life has a habit of getting in the way. Mom3 also alludes to the motivation I mentioned earlier. Feeling good and feeling the need to serve is often outweighed by more pressing things in life.
Yes, I have accepted callings in the past because I believed I was supposed to and I have sacrificed for those callings. The busiest of these included YMP (the busiest calling in the church) and bishop’s counselor. I remember sometimes sitting in meetings and thinking “that guy is so busy serving the church he’s losing his family,” and in the long run that thought has proved to be correct. People in the church use guilt and coercion to get people to serve – I believe some people actually believe their eternal salvation depends on their calling as a primary teacher. Of course, I haven’t had a calling in 10 years and don’t plan to accept one soon, but if and when I do I will be quite choosey.
My service of late tends to more “one shot” deals or ones that don’t require a commitment like every Wednesday. I also do my own service to neighbors and friends, little things like helping with yard clean up after a storm and such. I have helped with Mormon Helping Hands after flooding in our area 2 years ago. The reason I like these things is that they don’t require me to commit time I may end up not having. I also like the kind of thing where I show up and am told what needs doing and just do it, without having to be part of planning etc. – the food pantry is a good example (just show up hand out food) and so is helping hands.
Some employers these days are much more aware of “work-life balance” than those in the past, and I think the church has recognized this to an extent as well. In the volunteer situation, it seems I have to set my own work-life balance. I personally don’t want the project to be “mine” – it’s too much like work as opposed to volunteering or serving then.
Quote:Fwiw, I comment on whatever I have time to address, based on prioritizing everything I see when I log-in each time – because, ironically, I’m a volunteer here.
Ray, — I don’t think this is a fair comment or implication at all. That my expression of surprise is somehow a demand that you respond to every post I make. I don’t expect this and I often take down posts that people show no interest in. I have even given private messages that start with a disclaimer indicating that if there isn’t time to respond to the message, I understand. People have taken me up on my offer and I have not been offended.
I have not used this approach I gave in the OP before, and the quotes I gave above show the source of this ideation — a book by MAX Dupree and not my own approach. So the approach is not part of my character, as you may, or may not be assuming.
You, yourself made the comment that volunteer work, such as missionary committees are “such a failure”.
Doesn’t that realization imply a search for a better way may be in order??? Or should we just accept these kinds of failures as the province of volunteerism in and out of the Church? Should we let the vision and mission of worthwhile organizations wither on the vine because we are not willing to hone our skills and figure out how to attract, orient and retain volunteers who are empowered to go forth and change the world? I think not. Should we adopt the apparent attitude revealed by the posts here of
“great, you want to volunteer, I’ll take whatever I can, and if you make even minimal promises, and don’t follow through, and use everyone’s valuable time in relying on you, I’m OK with that. I will lie down and accept this as the territory of volunteerism”. That “hand up in the air” approach doesn’t work for me anymore with everything I have to do.
And the long history of starting projects, and never seeing them finished in the church is part of the reason I have no desire to return to leadership there for the time being. There is a cost to organizations who don’t know how to attract, retain, and orient people who give of their time freely — and often, that cost is a loss of leadership talent. Poorly attracted, poorly selelected, poorly oriented, and poorly empowered volunteers hurt organization’s ability to retain dedicated leaders.
That was part of the reason (15%) I asked to be released from my HPGL calling years ago. Although we had some very successful quarters, the return on time invested was so low, I got burned out.
Anyway, what I gain from the posts in this thread, is this. The filtering approach I proposed in the OP, where there are strong expectations up front, attrition up front, a low intake rate, and then a small team of committed volunteers, isn’t very popular at this site.
The answers I’ve received here have given me valuable insights into how people might react to the approach, though, and I appreciate it,. They seem homogeneous. However, when i asked two people at work (a mature student, and a professor), they both agreed that letting excellence die on the altar of gratitude that someone is willing to do SOMETHING isn’t an acceptable approach. One said it’s not ethical for volunteers to make commitments and then repeatedly, not follow through.
So, perhaps this sample of STaylders, which represents the population of disillusioned Mormons may not be representative of the world as a whole? Where people are not guilted into doing things and expected to serve until released, regardless of personal circumstances?
I’ve also concluded that I need to do more reading. I just ordered a book on how to attract and retain volunteers, as I think Max Dupree’s approach may be corporate America supplanted on volunteer America, and it may not work. His ideas have led me to an approach that volunteers may find distasteful to Mormons with long term exposure to the org’s approach to calls and releases. There is a site called volunteer match.com that I think might also be a good place to find people who agree to certain expectations up front.
I will keep working at this — the insights have been valuable. I tend to really work hard at things, and one of my goals in this new context is to reduce turnover and increase engagement with this little committee I’m working with. It could make me a better leader when I return to full church involvement someday.
Thanks for letting me post my thoughts here, and providing insights. I appreciate it.
DarkJedi wrote:Sorry I took so long to answer you question SD. it has been a busy few days.
No problem DJ, you are doing this as a volunteer, and I appreciate it.
Quote:People in the church use guilt and coercion to get people to serve – I believe some people actually believe their eternal salvation depends on their calling as a primary teacher. Of course, I haven’t had a calling in 10 years and don’t plan to accept one soon, but if and when I do I will be quite choosey.
This is the reason I think the orientation and expectation-setting approach I proposed in the OP was not very popular on this site. The LDS approach is one that people have tried, and have found burdensome. There may be an undercurrent of deep reluctance toward long-term volunteerism as a result -for the people on this site (myself included).
Quote:My service of late tends to more “one shot” deals or ones that don’t require a commitment like every Wednesday. I also do my own service to neighbors and friends, little things like helping with yard clean up after a storm and such. I have helped with Mormon Helping Hands after flooding in our area 2 years ago. The reason I like these things is that they don’t require me to commit time I may end up not having. I also like the kind of thing where I show up and am told what needs doing and just do it, without having to be part of planning etc. – the food pantry is a good example (just show up hand out food) and so is helping hands.
Yep — that is my approach in my own service at church. The fact that leaders call you and then take forever to release you doesn’t communicate respect for the volunteer that Ray commented is to important. Or that they often call you to positions when you don’t want that particular position.
Quote:In the volunteer situation, it seems I have to set my own work-life balance. I personally don’t want the project to be “mine” – it’s too much like work as opposed to volunteering or serving then.
See, if I knew this — having asked you how you felt about the level of commitment you could give to a non-profit if you said you were interested, this would be VERY valuable information. After I understood your reasons for serving, the fact that you prefer episodic projects as opposed to regular commitments, and your personal strengths, I could then make sure I don’t ask you to do things you are not likely to finish. Or provide you choice in projects that fit those parameters. If you say you want to help, and I don’t take the time to find out these key aspects of your service, then I would likely make mistakes, ask for more than you can give, and then you may well quit or not finish.
That would be a valuable part of an orientation. The orientation is two way — I am orienting you to the organization, and YOU are orienting me to your own unique set of skills, time available, and reasons for wanting to serve. We are BOTH setting expectations. You — about what you expect from leaders in terms of the nature of the work they will ask you to do, and time commitment. The leader is also orienting you to their own expectations about what the organization and leader needs from you. If there isn’t a match, then we go our separate ways until something comes up that fits our mutual expectations.
THIS is a two-way street.
To me, this is perfectly reasonable.
SD, fwiw, your last comment was a mischaracterization of what I’ve been saying, and I honestly don’t know how to respond properly to the comment as a whole. I think we are talking past each other, to a degree – since I agree with you far more than I think you see. I can, however, give one example that I feel I have to address. Quote:That my expression of surprise is somehow a demand that you respond to every post I make.
I never said that, I never would say that, and I didn’t mean to imply that – in any way. What I said is that I am a volunteer here (albeit one of the volunteer leaders), and I only can comment according to my available time – and that means I comment a lot on some days and not much on some days and hardly at all on some days. I try to carve out at least some time every day to check and comment, but my available time varies day-to-day – so I can’t “commit” to any specific amount of time each day. I do the best I can and participate as much as I can – but there is no way I could commit to any particular amount of time each day or week. For example, I’m out of work right now, so I have more time as I search for a new job, but when I find one and have to relocate and spend lots of extra time at first getting my mind around everything I will have to do, I am certain I will be commenting less for a while.
In other words, I give everything I can give, but I don’t know how much time I will be able to spend until each day rolls around – and I have to be able to accept that from others, as well. I can expect specified time commitments from some people (those who are able to make and keep them), but, with some people, all I can ask is whatever they can give.
Old-Timer wrote:SD, fwiw, your last comment was a mischaracterization of what I’ve been saying, and I honestly don’t know how to respond properly to the comment as a whole. I think we are talking past each other, to a degree – since I agree with you far more than I think you see. I can, however, give one example that I feel I have to address.
Quote:That my expression of surprise is somehow a demand that you respond to every post I make.
I never said that, I never would say that, and I didn’t mean to imply that – in any way. What I said is that I am a volunteer here (albeit one of the leading volunteer leaders), and I only can comment according to my available time – and that means I comment a lot on some days and not much on some days and hardly at all on some days. I try to carve out at least some time every day to check and comment, but my available time varies day-to-day – so I can’t “commit” to any specific amount of time each day. I do the best I can and participate as much as I can – but there is no way I could commit to any particular amount of time each day or week. For example, I’m out of work right now, so I have more time as I search for a new job, but when I find one and have to relocate and spend lots of extra time at first getting my mind around everything I will have to do, I am certain I will be commenting less for a while.
In other words, I give everything I can give, but I don’t know how much time I will be able to spend until each day rolls around – and I have to be able to accept that from others, as well. I can expect specified time commitments from some people (those who are able to make and keep them), but, with some people, all I can ask is whatever they can give.
I agree fully with that idea of taking what people can give. As you see to my post to DJ above, meeting people at the level of their available time and commitment is what I’m proposing with a two-way orientation. Me to their skills and availability and motives, and them to me, my organization needs and basic expectations. A long-term relationship requires both of these, in my view.
So, I will assume that you were not projecting over-bearingness on my post above regarding null responses to the quotes I gave — you were perhaps drawing an analogy. That is fine.
I also don’t want to imply that I’m having problems either working with people in this effort…I am trying to do it better and not have a repeat of some of the experiences I’ve had in the church — akin to your MP Missionary committee.
Funny, I had to wait at a govnt office today, and I read part of a new book on my Kindle that I downloaded as a result of this conversation. I am getting some really good insights about the minds of volunteers — and how to get organizational results AND serve the needs of volunteers simultaneously.
Quote:I am getting some really good insights about the minds of volunteers — and how to get organizational results AND serve the needs of volunteers simultaneously.
That’s really good to read.
:thumbup: OK, after reading a few sample books on recruiting, managing and leading volunteers during my excessive waiting time in lines today, I’ve reached the conclusion. We are both right…the problem is with the process I’ve been using. Volunteers will volunteer, but really, they are simply accepting a first date. It’s on the first, and maybe second date where they start thinking about marriage.
It’s at that point you must lay out the expectations (say the experts) — and
you do lay out expectations, but they are often matched to the commitment of the person. It requires considerable judgment. And of course, as I’ve always known, there has to be a match between the passions and skills of the person, their time and the needs of the organization. Many projects fail because people can’t stand their new “partner” (organization) after a couple dates due to incompatbility, skill and passion and expected commitment mismatches, etcetera.
Also, on the first date, the volunteer recruiter should also be assessing whether they want a second date with the prospective volunteer.
That way you avoid the situation where you ask a person to be a missionary committee chairperson with the need for referrals for missionaries. And then end up with a committee that refuses to do anything but service projects or administration (good activities, but potentially, not what the organization needed). And you may want to consider figuring out how to leverage the passion for administration and service projects to achieve referrals, without alienating the volunteers– perhaps by freeing up someone already doing those jobs who has a passion for generating referrals.
In the church, it appears we rely on prayer to determine who we should marry, and often skip the dating period, or skill match. Also, very little time devoted to the “studying it out in your mind” part of recommending volunteers is ever given in training meetings. Everyone defaults to prayer, it seems with the Bishop as the worn out gatekeeper. Training tends to be operational or sometimes motivational. REcommended calls seem based on whether the person is reliable rather than having specific skills in many cases.
Now I must rest. Been grappling with this when I’ve had a spare moment all day. Thanks for the perspectives, It helped me revise my position. And thanks to Jeff Bezos at Amazon and Wireless 3G that allowed me to read samples of three books on the subject by experts in the field. You would think that after 30 years in the church I’d know this stuff, wouldn’t you? Glad I’m out in the field, growing again….as I said in a movie in which I played a role recently (not kidding)…”Smile, Be Happy…Life’s Good!!!”
Hi, SilentDawning – I haven’t read the whole thread, so I’m just dropping in to say that non-profit leadership isn’t easy. We try to make tasks very manageable. It’s hard to keep enthusiasm up. We’ve learned to pace ourselves, not be too demanding and always be appreciative. I’ve learned a lot at church that helps in the non-profit world and vice-versa. I don’t know what kind of organization you’re working with, but, at the risk of saying something ridiculous and making a generalization, you might have the best chance of having a good experience if you work with a group that
directlydeals with children. People tend to put out their personal best for kids. Ann — thanks for the insight. It’s a business improvement district in a struggling area of town. There is crime, deteriorating buildings, and businesses open and then close months later. There is no culture, and no overarching strategy (yet) for revitalizing the commercial area. I work with a team of bankers, commercial real estate people, municipal people, and chartered accountants (so far) to attract new businesses and stop others from leaving. It’s never easy in any leadership capacity, but this organization is good. They are empowering, give you the freedom to do whatever you want. For me, it’s been like meeting an average-looking member of the opposite sex you see at a singles dance. They dont’ attract much interest or attention.. Then, after you get to know the person, they become beautiful and you fall in love.
There are a ton of good people I’m working with now — very reliable, but I have this feeling it’s working because I’ve lucked into good people….I came to the realization through this thread that after 30 years in the “serve where asked” model of the church, I don’t have a clue about how to proactively find, orient and integrate committed volunteers.
Spent the last day reading and found a book that has totally reopened my world. I see now why I only get commitment from 60% of the people I work with in business and community contexts, and in the church, 30%. I have done myself a disservice in terms of personal growth in believing the only service I need to do for my whole life is within the church as a priesthood holder. There is so much more to be learned outside the church!!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.