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Hi. I too grew up in the church and, like many here, have a long church pedigree. I have anscestors on boths sides who served in the Mormon Battalion, for example. I have worked and served in the church all of my life. I have had many teaching callings, many scout callings, have served as ward executive secretary and served in a bishopric for several years.
As a teenager, I was very dedicated to the church. I served an honorable mission, worked hard and saw little success. I loved the European culture that I lived in, and loved the members, but to this day shudder when I think about missionary work. Like other posts, I was disappointed at the pressure and dominion I found in the mission field, and found that many converts were more a result of missionary worship than testimony.
So, my mission was hard, but that’s really another story. I remember being frustrated at not being able to properly answer questions posed by investigators about polygamy and wondering why we were not taught about it as church members. I aped the lame excuses that I heard from companions, but really wanted to know what that history was. It has been a long road. I am now 48, and really felt I had only read some of the best sources in the last couple of years. I found “Rough Stone Rolling” and an Emma Smith Biography most enlightening. Unlike the tone of many pro- and anti- church books, they were just descriptive and highly researched and documented and presented the fairest understanding I had yet.
Along the way, I found that I really struggled with the Book of Mormon. While I agree it’s an amazing book, and I cannot account for it’s being written by someone of Joseph Smith’s background, a number of things bother me about the B of M that I will briefly mention here. There is the inherent racism that church leaders have tried to backtrack on. There are the anacronisms that are unexplainable to modern archeological knowledge (horses, swine, cattle, silk, flax, metalwork, honeybees, grain, bread, etc….). There is the problem of Deutero-Isaiah and the timing of the work to name a few.
In all my studies of history, I find that the logistics of the warfare described in the B of M to be unlikely, especially on a pan-continental scale, and while much fighting has taken place because of religion over the course of history, I find it highly unlikely that whole civilizations destroy each other over religion. I find it illogical that the B of M was written in ‘Reformed Egyptian’, a language for which there has never been found a second instance of, when the Jews at the time of Lehi had several choices of excellent written languages to choose from. In the end, I find it strange that a book so old, could just happen to resolve all of the 19th Century Protestant Doctrinal issues and go on to reflect a Euro-centric view of the world. From an archeological perspective, a huge amount of knowledge has been gained in recent years, and ‘New World’ societies are understood to a much greater degree than ever before, and there is not one shred of evidence that a european/near east culture existed here (to any significant degree, Vikings excluded). (By the way, the book ‘1491’ makes for tremendous reading about American Civilizations.) Initially, the view of the church was that the Book of Mormon represented the entire history of both contintents, but as it is really untenable, I don’t think many church scholars take that view now, preferring to view the B of M cultures as limited in geographic scope.
Moving on to church history, I find it a struggle that the B of M reflects a mistrust of secret societies, indiciative of anti-freemasonry sentiments in upstate New York at the time of the restoration, and that by the time time of Nauvoo, that Joseph had embraced Freemasonry and the temple ceremonies are reflective of that and in the end, embrace a secret society mentality. Further, as I have posted elsewhere, I feel that Joseph was a charismatic leader who used his position to sexually dominate numerous young women. I cannot excuse his treatment of Emma. I cannot accept polygamy in any sense.
As my mind expanded out of the church thought groove, I came to realize that there are many things in the bible that I cannot interpret literally. For example, while I think there was probably a Noah and some kind of flood, I do not think that he was able to gather representatives of the entire biosphere into an ark and save the planet. I also realize that the sources for the bible are a lot murkier than most people realize. It was not even put down in written form for a thousand years.
I also struggle with the anti-intellectualism in the church. Anytime that any new knowledge is seen as a threat, then the shields go up, and you are accused of thinking you are smarter than God. I find it interesting that a religion that in the 1830s, challenged most of societies notions, today is totally focused on conformity.
So, I could go on and on, but you should be able to get the picture. I am greatly struggling with my activity and my identity. I am grateful to the church and it’s teaching and know that I have benefitted therefrom. I struggle socially in the church. I feel like an outsider looking in. My political leanings are much more liberal than the general Utah church membership and I have found that nearly interolable in recent months as members spout their anti-Obama diatribes at church and church gatherings. I am much more lucky than many in this forum, because I have an understanding and even sympathetic wife who has nurse her own doubts most of her life. Our marriage is strong (27 years) and she is my best friend; in fact, it would be a very lonely road to follow without such an understanding spouse, because she is the only who with whom I can confide and discuss my feelings.
I want to remain active. I do not want to change my values. I can’t imagine the social and familial impacts of leaving the church. I would like to be happier in attending, but have just about given up on that. I would like to raise my children to be more open-minded than our Utah cultural norm. From reading these posts, I am now very cautious about what I tell my leaders and my fellow church members about this. On the other hand, I feel like I need to say something, because I am finding that I do not feel comfortable teaching doctrine that I don’t believe.
So, anyway, I appreciate this forum and the chance to just speak out. That is therapeutic in and of itself.
Welcome SilentStruggle! It sounds like this is the right place for you. Welcome. I have no problem with some of the things you mention, but I agree with some of them. You will find that holds true here for many of us. We see some things similarly; we see others slightly differently; we see others radically differently. The key is to be respectful and not evangelize one particular perspective as the only alternative. We’re here to help each other find our own comfort zone, if you will. Fwiw, I stopped participating on one site specifically because of the rise in political threads that occurred during the presidential campaign and after the election. The word “idiot” was being thrown around freely, along with statements about the spiritual worthiness of those with differing viewpoints, and I just don’t want to spend time with that type of approach.
Hi Silentstruggle I haven’t been on this board for too long myself and have found it a place to work out the problems. I think you should read and follow up on the thread of James Fowler’s stages of faith as a starting point. You seem to be at a stage where so many doubts are coming at you that it is like a swarm of bees. We might explain one or two of the problems quickly to some satisfaction but there would still be a whole host of bees still stinging you. The Fowler theory of religious development basically says that what you are going through is OK, to be expected of someone who is growing spiritually, and something that you will get through.
I really feel that you shouldn’t do anything quickly or rashly about the Church. Think back and focus on the spiritual witnesses that you have received during your life (from the way you frame your post I am pretty well certain that there have been a number). Hang on to them, they are real, God is real and does communicate with people as illogical as that may be to rationalists. It may well be that you and your wife will eventually find a spiritual path away from the Church, which is OK too as long as it is healthy for you and spiritually satisfying.
So, lots more discussions coming up with you. But they aren’t the crucial step right now, decide to take your time. Look for the Spirit and love your wife, in this case, share with your wife (sometimes that is not always wise if family members are firmly set in what Fowler calls the Stage 3 faith of solid, conventional, loyal acceptance) but it seems that both of you are togther in this. I think one of the goals you should have is to be together, to love and care and serve each other.
There, I was shutting down and got babbling again, sorry
Welcome, silent! Glad to have you here! I’ll echo what others have said: this is a great place to work out “stuff” in healthy, meaningful, and practical ways. Love it!
Welcome Silentstruggle! You hit on several topics regarding the BoM that are my favorites. I don’t know if the introduction is the proper place for these–perhaps I’ll start a new thread to address some of these things. In fact, I think I will. If I may, let me address some of your points to start off a new thread on the BoM in the History and Doctrine discussion.
Welcome here, SilentStruggle. The choice to remain in the church is an honorable one, if that is the course you end up taking. Here we explore ways to do that for reasons deeper than external social ones. And all we say and do is aimed at finding positive ways to relate to the LDS Church, in spite of our reservations about some of its traditions and practices. All in all, we hope we can say it is a good church. My current article of faith in that regard is, “The LDS religion is far from perfect. But it is a giant step in the right direction for a lot of people.”
welcome. your story really resonates with me. I share many of your concerns and views. Thanks for the many kind words, and I apologize for being slow to respond. My spare time, like many others is quite limited. I am taking the advice and after a cursory look, found Jim Fowler’s theory very helpful. I talked about a lot of negatives in my original post, but I do know that living the precepts of the gospel is a powerful tool towards successful living. I think that one of the things new converts get from membership and the teachings is the ability to move away from faulty and failure-prone behaviors and practices, which so much of the world engages in. So, here are some positives: I am grateful that the W of W has kept me from many dangers, I am faithful home teacher and have found some great relationships and rewards in that calling, I fully enjoy service projects, and working in our Stake Orchard, I love the principle of lay clergy, I know a lot of people stuggle with church leadership, but I know that they are just regular people who didn’t ask for that role and are trying to make a go of it and at least they are not in it for the money. While there is a lot of ignorance in the church, and smug satisfaction in that ignorance and what I call ‘thinking in a trench’, there are really a lot of wonderful church members who are truly trying to live Christlike lives.
I definitely understand the potential impacts to my wife and children were I to leave the church. The question for me probabaly going to be is how to learn to live within the church and Utah Culture and not drive myself crazy.
Yeah, I am convinced it is the culture that grows up around the church that tries to promote the Gospel that gets in the way for most people. It’s SO hard to differentiate and separate the culture from the church. If you are interested, from a post I wrote a couple of weeks ago on my blog: My biggest concern whenever people discuss culture and race is that it is almost impossible to have a dispassionate discussion of the central issues that cause contention in the first place – because culture is so tied up in individual perceptions of value and self-worth and community. I really like the “culture as a coat” metaphor, but it is very hard for most people to shed a coat when they feel cold or in need of protection. In other words,
people feel naked (or even not themselves) when you remove them from their culture (take away their covering/protecting coat), so they cling to that culture passionately– and often irrationally. silentstruggle wrote:So, here are some positives: I am grateful that the W of W has kept me from many dangers, I am faithful home teacher and have found some great relationships and rewards in that calling, I fully enjoy service projects, and working in our Stake Orchard, I love the principle of lay clergy, I know a lot of people stuggle with church leadership, but I know that they are just regular people who didn’t ask for that role and are trying to make a go of it and at least they are not in it for the money. While there is a lot of ignorance in the church, and smug satisfaction in that ignorance and what I call ‘thinking in a trench’, there are really a lot of wonderful church members who are truly trying to live Christlike lives.
What a GREAT post, silentstruggle! This and your first post were great.
I think this part I quoted above really hit me…it seems that is the most mature way to proceed. Recognize the things you don’t like about the church and shed them. Recognize the things you love about the church that make you happy, and seek and develop those. I have gone through many of the same emotions and feel there is power if responsibly defining what it means to you and what you value, and desperately clinging to those things. As many people have said on this site on other threads, you can make it YOUR church and YOUR worship services…others can’t take that away from you, no matter how smug or ignorant they become. My journey has led me to let go of what I think I “should” be as a mormon, and become at peace with what I am, and how much my beliefs in this church help me be better.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Welcome!
Hi, silentstruggle. I’ve just read your intro and thought I’d just let you know how much of what you said I could relate to. It’s getting late and I was just about to turn in, so I won’t comment further tonight. I will try to get back to you by the end of the day Sunday, though. I think we have quite a bit in common. silentstruggle wrote:The question for me probabaly going to be is how to learn to live within the church and Utah Culture and not drive myself crazy.
Oh…I can so relate to this! That is the question for me as well. I think it’s wonderful you have a loving and supportive spouse. I have the same. We are able to discuss all these topics openly and freely and that makes all the difference.
I think I’m pretty firm in this direction now. One of the things I hadn’t realized until some of my recent readings is that ‘Mormon’ is also an ethnicity and not just a religion. To me that means that a simple religious decision won’t turn off my ethnicity. I’ll still be a Mormon regardless. There is much I agree with in the church. I want my daughter to have the experiences of the YW program. I want her to have that stability and a firm moral place to hold to as she goes through her teenage years. I am still working out the details; what, if anything to tell the bishop, how to hold callings, especially teaching callings when I can’t ‘testify’, how to fight the urge to not go to church, because of the inner-conflicts it creates for me, can i get a ‘testimony’ back? So, I’m trying hard to believe in Christ and trying hard to hold to my moral compass and improve myself.
Lucky to have a tolerant wife with a similar mindset.
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