"A Poke in the Eye With a Mormon Pointy Stick"

[Ann]

I’m curious to know what you all think of this post from Wheat & Tares about excommunication.

“A Poke in the Eye With a Mormon Pointy Stick: Excommunication as a Model of Violent Dominion Theology.”

http://www.wheatandtares.org/14427/pointy-stick-excommunication-as-violent-dominion-theology/

I wouldn’t use the word violent in this discussion at all, but I get his use of it:

Quote:

Cyprian of Carthage was a third-century North African bishop known for his leadership and devotion to Christ’s church. Though he is obscure to many non-Catholics, he said these famous words: “He can no longer have God for his Father, who has not the Church for his mother.” With these words Cyprian implies that the church has the God-given authority to determine the identity of the true members of God’s family. In Mormon terms, that which is bound on earth and thus in heaven, can be loosed by the same power. The pathos of the quotation lies in its assumption that cutting members away from mother Church and the fellowship of believers also removes their access to God. To the extent that this occurs in excommunication, it is harsh and violent.

This quote in particular interested me because of our thread awhile back about Mother in Heaven. More and more I feel like the church is that structure where my parents live; it’s the roof over my head, but not my actual mother. (But a roof over one’s head is important.)

I also liked his discussion of heresy.

[Anonymous]

I liked how BiV explained the difference between Malcolms and Martins. This made a lot of sense for me. Even so, if we say Sonja Johnson was a Malcolm, Kate Kelly is definitely a Martin, but maybe there was just too much time. The problem is that in Mormonism people are so passive aggressive they don’t know the difference between persistence and aggression. That’s a Utah culture thing specifically, but also Mormon generally thanks to Utah culture.

[Anonymous]

Hawkgrrl –

Quote:

The problem is that in Mormonism people are so passive aggressive they don’t know the difference between persistence and aggression. That’s a Utah culture thing specifically, but also Mormon generally thanks to Utah culture.

Amen.

I grew up outside the corridor and was always shocked when we visited The Bosom of Zion to see the different Mormons that existed from my local fellow Mormons. In my opinion, technology helped to spread the culture outward and there was no way to reverse the act.

[Anonymous]

That’s interesting, mom3. I’ve seen just the opposite: a very stark difference between the culture in areas where Mormons dominate demographically and areas where Mormons are a small minority. (with obvious exceptions, based on local leadership)

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that nearly as bad as excommunication given the emphasis on the temple these days is having your recommend taken away. Even the threat of it will give you pause to consider your sins and future actions and appreciate how it feels to have God and Jesus turn their backs while a bishop that may or may not know you decides your fate.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

That’s interesting, mom3. I’ve seen just the opposite: a very stark difference between the culture in areas where Mormons dominate demographically and areas where Mormons are a small majority. (with obvious exceptions, based on local leadership)

Ray, are you trying to tell me I don’t know everything? Hmm. 🙄

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Ray, are you trying to tell me I don’t know everything? Hmm. 🙄

Oh, crap, I meant to let you continue in your delusion. 😳

[Anonymous]

Have we been hearing about more instances of recommends being taken away than in the past? I have heard it happen locally, when before, I never heard local leaders doing it at all.

The main case I heard was that a couple decided to attend a Ward outside of their geographica Ward, and the SP threatened to take way their recommends if they didn’t go back to their geographical Ward (this was not my family, which are non TR-holders for the time being). Then, the parents of Kate Kelly also had theirs taken away I’ve been told.

[Author]

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