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Wuwei, thanks for sharing. I’d love it if every mission were like that. wuwei wrote:All in all, I’m sure there are some for whom serving at 18 will be beneficial. But it would have been a disaster for me.
I think that is the crux of personal revelation, that the right thing for us in our circumstances might not be right for others in their circumstances. I served at just under 21 and then later my future wife and I decided to postpone our marriage by about 6 months so that she could finish her degree. We got pressure for both decisions, but both were the right ones for us.
well, I’m just glad that we don’t hear everyone telling our young women to marry a returned missionary anymore. I think a mission can be a great experience, my daughter loved hers and i was so excited to finally have a missionary—but not every returned missionary is a great guy—-some of them have affairs on their wives—-and some of them are better men because they went on missions. we’ve become such a world-wide church, that we now have so many people who do not join the church until they are adults—and plenty of men made mistakes, or were not living church standards at the time—so they missed a mission—-but grew to be wonderful, righteous men. My husband got married while still in high school and was inactive for over 13 year and divorced with 2 children when we met. (I had 2 children also–married out of the church,too) I know he has been struggling with things recently, but I still believe in him and would hate to have someone think he was less of a good person because he didn’t go on a mission.
I would prefer to teach our young women to marry worthy priesthood holders rather than returned missionaries.
wuwei—-it sounds like you had one fantastic mission president. Quote:I would prefer to teach our young women to marry worthy priesthood holders rather than returned missionaries.
Amen.
I know someone who had started a relationship with someone who did not serve a complete mission. They were happy, liked each other and had a decent chance of ending up together. Someone she respected was adamant about marrying a traditional RM, and they ended up breaking up over it.
The future didn’t turn out badly for my friend, but I still wonder what might have been had the obsession over marrying an RM hadn’t been part of their situation. I really believe they could have been very happy together, and both of them were “worthy” and “righteous” in every traditional way.
One of my daughters never would date LDS boys, finding them seriously wanting in many ways. She also dressed quite fashionably, which did not always fit the standards — causing her to be ostracized by the ward YW leaders. Eventually, she dated a non-member guy, who for reasons I think I understand, came to our ward a few times, and found that elders quorum, with its ability to discuss things relevant to people like him, was as true of a church as he needed: he investigated and joined. A little over a year later, they were married in the temple, and now have two wonderful boys.
Her husband has been both the Young Men’s president, and is now the Elders Quorum President in his ward. He’s not a true-blue believer, really, but doesn’t object to the doctrine of the church. He’s very supportive, and finds that service is a big motivator. They have a lot of fun together — he’s a career civil servant supporting the Marine Corps, and is a great husband and father.
As well, my mother married a non-member dude…my father, whom I am helping move his house today — he’s 93, has been a stake YMP, high councilor many times, and bishop…but not a true believer in the least. he got baptized to baptize my older sister, and joined the church for the family and the ‘good lifestyle’ it embodied.
I hope and pray that my daughters will marry spouses that are good for them and good to them, who are good first, then religious perhaps down the ladder of priorities. I would put ‘faithful’ and ‘spiritual’ far higher in priority than ‘religious’.
wayfarer—i’m not exactly sure i necessarily believe that your son-in-law and your father are not “true believers”. Since actions speak louder than words–and their actions are speaking loud and clear as to how someone would treat their family and live a Christ-like life
they just may more “true believers” than a lot of people who can talk the talk—-but don’t walk the walk.I don’t think how someone came to be a member is nearly as important as to what kind of member they are.
momto11 wrote:wayfarer—i’m not exactly sure i necessarily believe that your son-in-law and your father are not “true believers”. Since actions speak louder than words–and their actions are speaking loud and clear as to how someone would treat their family and live a Christ-like life
they just may more “true believers” than a lot of people who can talk the talk—-but don’t walk the walk.I don’t think how someone came to be a member is nearly as important as to what kind of member they are.
Amen to that. True believer are over rated sometimes.
momto11 wrote:wayfarer—i’m not exactly sure i necessarily believe that your son-in-law and your father are not “true believers”. Since actions speak louder than words–and their actions are speaking loud and clear as to how someone would treat their family and live a Christ-like life
they just may more “true believers” than a lot of people who can talk the talk—-but don’t walk the walk.I don’t think how someone came to be a member is nearly as important as to what kind of member they are.
of course I agree.He is definitely a ‘pragmatic believer’, not a ‘true believer’, in my impression. The difference is that a person may decide that the church is useful and true for them, but nothing rises to the level of ‘exclusively true’ for everyone. A true believing mormon, in my impression, would buy fully into the D&C 1:30 statement, “the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth.”
His wife, my third daughter, went through a mini-faith-crisis when I told her, a few months ago, that it’s best if you look at all LDS scripture figuratively rather than literally. This opened a flood-gate of doubt, and she asked her husband, “What if the Church isn’t true?”, and he said, “So what? Does it really matter?” Bless this guy — he’s in it for love, for service, and for family — a culture that isn’t as toxic as what he grew up in.
momto11 wrote:wuwei—-it sounds like you had one fantastic mission president.
Unfortunately my 2nd mission president walked back a lot of this stuff. Fortunately I was only there for 4 months with him. I hope he didn’t mess with it too much. Although the prevailing attitude of the missionaries might have supported him. I know there was a lot of murmuring among newer missionaries about my first mission president not cracking down on rules.
To illustrate one difference:
1st mission president: “Elders and sisters, as long as you and your companion can feel the spirit and are uplifted it’s between you and God what music you listen to.”
2nd mission president: “Not all MoTab is uplifiting and consistent with the nature of your calling. Here’s a list of the 4 CDs I approve of.”
I hope he didn’t change the sisters being in charge of themselves thing although I’m pretty sure he didn’t call new ones when the old ones went home.
Honestly it’s stuff like this that helps me believe my mission call was inspired. Any other mission pres and I don’t know If I’d have made it. Certainly not if I’d had to deal with another 20 months of my 2nd pres.
To the other comments:
I have really mixed feelings on girls being told to marry RMs only because if it wasn’t for a string of girls breaking up with me over not being one I never would have gone. And then I would never have had the great life-changing experience my mission was.
Not to say I wouldn’t have been happy if one of them had looked past that and I’d married sooner. But I wouldn’t be where I’m at today. And looking back my wife is so much better for me than they were.
I hate saying this because I feel like it perpetuates the idea that girls are used to get boys to do things. We called it “flirt to convert” on my mission… But in my case it’s entirely true. And while I may not agree with the means, the ends are hard to argue with.
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