A Rampant Mind

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the clarification.

Quote:

I especially want to hear your people’s opinions if it’s backed up by a good solid logical argument.

Some will be. Others simply will be based on personal experiences and feelings. We are a combination of the two – body and spirit or brain and heart, however each person frames it.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the clarification of “furry.” I was worried this conversion was going to the realm of “hairy palms” mythology.

I’m done.

Good luck.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

Thanks for the clarification of “furry.” I was worried this conversion was going to the realm of “hairy palms” mythology.

I’m done.

Good luck.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

lolwut? Could you be more specific?

Sent from my Laptop.

[Anonymous]

A_Wanderer wrote:

cwald wrote:

Thanks for the clarification of “furry.” I was worried this conversion was going to the realm of “hairy palms” mythology.

I’m done.

Good luck.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

lolwut? Could you be more specific?

Sent from my Laptop.

I think cwald is referring to old wives tales and Victorian era beliefs about masturbation, some of which included “hairy palms” and blindness.

Before one understands what cwald says, one must understand cwald. That’s why I love him.

[Anonymous]

cwald wrote:

What the hell is a furry?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I love having you on this forum

Hi to A_Wanderer. As Ray said, you’re going to get a less than orthodox response on this forum. I personally think the LDS obsession with masturbation to be excessive and unhealthy.

There’s a thread active at the moment “self-stimulation in marriage” where the consensus is that there are times when it’s ok. My son is approaching puberty. I’m still not sure what advice to give him. I think it’s over the top in terms of what we currently tell our teens. I actually think a step back and willingness to let them discover themselves without teaching them they’re somehow one step down from being a murderer (which is what some teach) would be a good idea.

On the other hand… I think healthy relationships with other people are important. I think obsessions of any kind are unhealthy. I think my obsession with Mormon social media puts a division between myself and my family sometimes. My wife and kids get fed up at the hours I spend tapping away on my phone. I’m trying to curb my time on all the forums (saving this one till last )

So in terms of advice – get yourself onto the Addiction Recovery Program if there’s a habit you want to kick. It has worked for me a couple of times. It tends to be the best balance of the atonement and decent self-analysis and habit management. Your Bishop should be able to point you towards it.

If you feel that you have an unhealthy obsession (and you are your best own judge) then it’s worth doing something about it. Don’t worry about whether I think it’s good or bad. Be your own doctor.

But feel free to stay for support here if you want it.

[Anonymous]

Whatever happens in your future, I believe you will look back with the benefit of hindsight and wish you didn’t beat yourself up so much.

I see you in 10 years being a devoted and adored husband and father and an honorable priesthood holder. This issue does not define you or, I believe, your standing before your Heavenly Father. Whether you define masturbation as good, bad, or indifferent – whether you are eventually successful in changing this habit or not, You are so much MORE than that.

[Anonymous]

Amen, Roy.

[Anonymous]

I also agree with Roy. Do your best now and you’ll probably find that things work out well–that you find the happiness in the gospel that you want. You’ll make some mistakes, but your heart is in the right place. Perspective down the road has a way of making the things we beat ourselves up about in the past somehow look insignificant and, often, forgotten.

Alex

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for the support and thoughts…

Hm. A lot of you are arguing that masturbation is hardly a sin but if you do a search in the Ensign archives about it, you can see that President Kimball had taken a strong stance against it. If the President of the Church has spoken out against it, well, there’s not much room for denial, is there?

Also, perhaps you all can help me with another question… I’ve heard it said over and over that one can experience CONSTANT true happiness if one keeps to the commandments of God. Can anyone give clarification and/or personal experiences with this?

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

A_Wanderer wrote:

Thank you all for the support and thoughts…

Hm. A lot of you are arguing that masturbation is hardly a sin but if you do a search in the Ensign archives about it, you can see that President Kimball had taken a strong stance against it. If the President of the Church has spoken out against it, well, there’s not much room for denial, is there?

Also, perhaps you all can help me with another question… I’ve heard it said over and over that one can experience CONSTANT true happiness if one keeps to the commandments of God. Can anyone give clarification and/or personal experiences with this?

I had told myself I wasn’t going to post in this thread anymore because I agree with Ray – you already have your mind made up. And, you were looking for the kind of discussion you’d get at a TBM site, not the kind you’re getting here.

But, I can’t let this statement go. The prophet is not infallible and everything that proceeds from his mouth is not gospel or revelation. Just because SWK took a stance against masturbation and spoke about it (even a lot) does not mean it’s anything but him speaking. He may have had personal feelings on the subject or some other reason he wanted to speak about it. One of the tests on whether a prophet is speaking as a prophet is the scripture test. If it’s not in there or is contrary to scripture (more than a line or two) it’s probably not inspired. You’ll get varying degrees of how inspired the Q15 are here, I tend to be in the part of the spectrum that believes very little of what they say is inspired and there is almost no revelation. That doesn’t mean they don’t say good things, it doesn’t mean they’re not teaching doctrine of the church. It just means they’re no better than you and I except they are in a position to express their views to more people more often.

As to your second point (question), let him who is without sin speak first. I do believe keeping the commandments can bring happiness, I also believe no one (including SWK and TSM) fully keep all the commandments – it’s a human frailty.

[Anonymous]

A_Wanderer wrote:

… I should start at the beginning. My first encounter with the problem that I am to this day still battling happened around 2001-2002. I discovered, well… masturbation. I, of course, wish I never did. I didn’t realize it was a sin until about a year after I first started doing it. I tried to quit by myself without any church or gospel or spiritual help of any kind but, as you can guess, I failed. I tried again, with different mental strategies but failed again as well. In the end, I just stopped trying for a bit and focused on just limiting it once in a while…I was supposed to go on a mission at 19 but I never did because of procrastination. But the time for procrastinating is over and now it’s time to quit all my sins for good. I know now where I went wrong all those times. I never tried to repent FULLY AND COMPLETELY. I just simply tried to stop doing it…

Sin or not, I would try to keep it in perspective. Aren’t there more serious things to worry about? How much will this really matter ten years from now? What difference does it really make in the grand scheme of things? I wouldn’t repeatedly confess it to priesthood leaders either because the Church already has the official position that it should not be grounds for disciplinary action for good reason because if they really eliminated all masturbation in the Church once and for all then there wouldn’t be very many priesthood holders left anymore. However, you never know what you are going to get if you confess things like this to Church leaders because it all depends on the opinion and personality of the individual. For example, some missionaries had sex and are allowed to go/stay on missions and others are routinely turned away or sent home for much less than that. So they aren’t necessarily going to know what should be done about it because they are only human just like everyone else and that’s why I think this kind of thing should mostly be between you and God and not necessarily anyone else’s business.

[Anonymous]

I won’t go into my feelings about The Miracle of Forgiveness and some of the specifics in it. Even Pres. Kimball expressed regret for the tone and for how it caused crushing guilt for many members. He didn’t intend for that to happen. (See the biography written by his son, Edward Kimball.)

I will make one more point, as clearly as I can do so:

The Church’s Handbook of Instructions tells Bishops that masturbation should NOT lead to official church discipline of ANY kind – not denial of the sacrament, not disfellowshipment, not excommunication, not writing an essay about the Law of Chastity, not anything. Local leaders also are told clearly that they should NOT ask youth in interviews anything that would constitute specifics of sexual activity, and the wording implies that youth should not be asked if they masturbate. Think about that, please. The counsel still remains, generally, to avoid it, but there is to be NO discipline associated with it, and Bishops are told not to ask about it.

Given that fact, how “serious” a sin is it seen to be at the top levels of the Church right now? Not very, since a formal repentance process that includes confession is not required. It’s very much a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy – and I believe that is how it should be.

Having said that, there is a difference, again, between occasional occurrence and obsessive, habitual activity. Addiction is defined, generally, as something that isn’t a biological necessity naturally that becomes a compulsion that morphs into a biological necessity. Someone masturbating occasionally is different than someone masturbating obsessively. The first is no big deal, even according to the Church Handbook of Instructions; the second is symptomatic of deeper issues and ought to be addressed, perhaps through professional counseling. Only you can determine where you are on the scale, but that decision shouldn’t equate an occasional occurrence with addiction – and, regardless, masturbation shouldn’t be considered an egregious sin when the Church itself officially doesn’t classify it that way (despite what former leaders or current local leaders might have said and still say).

[Anonymous]

A_Wanderer wrote:

I’ve heard it said over and over that one can experience CONSTANT true happiness if one keeps to the commandments of God. Can anyone give clarification and/or personal experiences with this?

This is such a pet peeve of mine. Just read through the scriptures and see if you can find one prophet who had constant, or even regular, happiness. You wont find one! Those who we consider to be the most righteous seem to have very hard lives full of suffering. Even Jesus, who we are taught never sinned, had many sorrowful experiences. We can’t expect to be the lucky ones who avoid suffering in life. I think the Buddhists have this part right! (Life is Suffering). Commandments are suppose to help us avoid some things that would lead to suffering, but there is going to be plenty of it regardless. Even the things we are told will bring us the most happiness–our families, children etc., are often the things that also cause the most sorrow.

Also, please read quotes from apostles about how they do not receive continuous revelation (Oaks), and how leaders make mistakes (Uchtdorf). Ray’s comment above shows that the current thinking on M has changed. If you believe in revelation, you should be more willing to follow current teachings over old ones.

[Anonymous]

Nothing guarantees constant happiness. Nothing. Nothing in all of our scriptural canon says anyone can experience constant happiness. Nothing. In fact, our scriptures say the exact opposite – in too many places to try to list here.

Elder Holland spoke at a Stake Conference I attended a few years ago, and he talked about suffering. He said something that highlights what journeygirl just shared – the inaccuracy of believing exact and complete obedience leads to constant happiness – something I have NEVER heard an apostle teach from the pulpit in General Conference. Some local leaders and members might say things like that, but it’s not being preached in that way at the top.

Elder Holland was talking about people who complain that their trials are too hard for others to understand – that they are unique in some way because their trials are so hard and that God shouldn’t make them go through such difficulties. He said something like:

Quote:

“When I hear that from people, I feel like putting my foot on their throat and telling them to get real. I know – not a very apostolic reaction. Do they really think God will spare them from trials – or that they are more righteous than people who suffer much more than they do? If God will spare us trials due to our faithfulness, what do we make of Joseph and other prophets and their trials – or, most importantly, of Jesus and his? Do we really think we deserve no trials – even very difficult ones, when some of the most faithful people we know have suffered the most?”

[Author]

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