- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Sigh at what? You completely misrepresented several people’s views and seem to have completely misunderstood mine. I wonder if you even read them properly. I posted those pictures, by the way, as an example of how sick and hypocritical our society is.
Apart from sighing why not address my individual points?
PORN 😮 porn!:shh: Yeah that seems to be all everyone ever talked about growing up as a youth.
I’ve met two different porn stars in person when I worked at the mall.
One I knew and recognized from my late teenage years when I would “borrow” a DVD. This actress seemed almost ashamed to meet me. She was grateful that I didn’t curse her name, call her a horror or called her to repent. Apparently I gave off a religious priest type of vibe.
She sort of vented to me that she was for the most part done with the industry. She may decide to do some modeling on the side from time to time but her days of staring in adult videos was over. She had children and wanted nothing more than to somehow blend in so that she wouldn’t be approached. Even though she was rather wealthy she would rather her children never learn how she got all the money and wished that they could grow up relatively normal.
I met another adult “actress” around the same time but I did not know who she was. This one asked me specifically if I was a priest. I think she was surprised that I did not make reference to any of her work. I told her that I had priesthood in my religion and that I am called an Elder. She seemed to be completely unfamiliar with what a Mormon is. I did tell her that I sort of stopped believing in my religion and wasn’t sure if I wanted to scrap it or not. I told her that I was cool with sort of reaching out of my religious morals and testing or trying out a slightly less sheltered lifestyle. She for whatever reason wanted so badly to shake my hand and wished me luck with my newly found desire of a different lifestyle that was no longer so sheltered. Speaking with this young woman I found out that we were very close in age, she grew up in the same State as me and lived in the same County but a different city. She has modeled, stared in soft core and regular porn. She has never gone super hardcore or crazy before though. I think really she just enjoys expressing her sexuality through film. She does not have any kids though. She does not have the burden of trying to raise children without certain people recognizing her. Perhaps if she did ever have children she seemed to have a very in your face sassy attitude that would cause her not to care if her kids knew where all the money came from.
I understand that porn can potentially be habit forming and for some can cause the desire to explorer sexuality with affairs, one night stands and forming partners with no strings attached. With that in mind I don’t feel like this is the case for everyone. I feel that pornography can just be an expression of human sexuality. In the current day there are guys and girls in the adult film industries of all different body types. There may be the fantasy girl and the fantasy guy but then it was realized that people like seeing people who look like themselves as well.
Current church policies forbid such thoughts.
I think the main reason that I wanted to post was to show that the adult film stars are relatively normal people. It was their choice to participate and that was the source of income. Each person involved is different and may react differently over time. I may have gone on a bit of a tangent but oh well that happens sometimes.
Headshake….sigh and laugh! Still not taking other people’s POVs onboard? I do genuinely feel sullied by this conversation. Not only because life is not black and white, but because this is an aspect of life I am deliberately distanced from, and because I am accused of opinions I don’t actually hold. Are aspects of the industry completely wrong? You betcha. Are there nasty elements? Criminal? Yes. Do some people bitterly regret working in it? Definitely. But I’m not going to conjure up a stat, to support or oppose my position because there aren’t any proper ones.
I choose not to look at, or fund any of it. But what I hear about it shows that it doesn’t fit one paradigm. Therefore I’m out of the loop.
As for porn and inappropriate imagery. Try watching MTV some time. Or even note how it is seeping into every day life. Once you had to go to special shops for this with covered windows, now it seems like advertizing and mainstream culture are converging with it.
Ok I’ll try to make this quick and address some of your concerns since my head shaking and sighing seems to have hit a nerve with you SamBee. First off I apologize if you think that I was saying that you supported child porn. I simply found your statement that the cops blow out of portion the capture of users a little interesting as again many also swap and make their own stuff using children they have access to as well. (FBI child porn page since I know you will want the site)
I do understand others pov….I have agreed numerous times that their are different degrees of porn and usage and that most are not forced into it. I have also agreed that there is even a debate about whether or not it can be classified as an addiction. Also that like most things not everyone becomes addicted to it. I have also agreed that it is natural and normal to be attracted to these things for both men and women.
As far as the stats I could link 20 sites on the % of people in the sex industry that were sexually abused as children but I still think you would not believe due to the statistical margin of error that occurs because it is UNDER REPORTED so what is the point?
The FBI has an entire task force/department for the sexual exploitation and trafficking of people right here in the US which does not include what is happening in the world. (The agri exploitation and sexual exploitation are both awful.)
Yes the circuit is very real and if you go to the FBI page you will find stats like…. the average age of a child prostitute is 13, that they live on average 7-8 years before dying of disease or physical trauma, that many are marketed through online porn, that johns on average are fined a max of $300 dollars. You are correct though that this type of situation does not make up all porn or even a majority. Most users are not soliciting an encounter and would be horrified if they were told that the girl they were viewing was underage. Problem is it can be very difficult to tell and I find it interesting how many guys are willing to give it a pass and just assume its not what they are viewing.
I guess that is what I have a problem with when it comes to porn, the extremes, because there are innocent happy porn stars even in the hard stuff I assume, but the flip side is so dark and so evil.
Your high schooler was most likely exposed to porn at a young age as most kids are these days and it has warped her view on what normal sex is and what is expected as her role as a female. Or she also could have been sexually abused as a child and is now acting out.
Yes most women are not passive anymore…sorry.
We do sexualize youth today in all areas….hmmmm could there be a connection between that and child porn?
It is natural to have sexual desires and I am saddened that “self abuse” is in the CHI.
Sorry again SamBee about the child porn….I know you did not mean it that way. Another reply chewed up by phone! Thanks Dax apology accepted.
In brief, porn is forbidden fruit. One of the big arguments against it is that its addicts grow bored with the same stuff and want something stronger… until a few go beyond the realm of legal sex. Kiddie porn is ultra-forbidden and perhaps the last step in degeneration.
Personally speaking, I think all KP users are criminally insane, i.e. guilty, aware of that but mentally ill too. I don’t think it’s dealt with properly/effectively, though Dax. Surely our governments could take down these websites, even foreign based ones.
(I’ll write a proper reply to your longer message when I’m off this wretched phone – it’s useless with any longer messages.)
Old-Timer wrote:Quote:I hate the idea of women being abused or taken advantage of against their will as much as anyone. However, I guess I just don’t believe this is always the case for all porn with no exceptions.
Nobody has made that claim here. Just saying.
That’s what it sounded like to me. Maybe no one specifically said that all porn is bad all the time but the gist of what I am hearing seems to be that some hard-core porn is currently made in a very shady, unethical, and even illegal way and this is supposedly so commonplace that all hard-core porn deserves to be lumped together in one big pile and condemned and on top of that porn consumers are supposedly guilty of contributing to this abuse (guilt by association). The problem I have with this general idea is that I have no doubt that I could easily find many examples of hard-core porn that have nothing whatsoever to do with some of the awful descriptions I am hearing where nothing all that weird or extreme is going on, just plain vanilla everyday sex acts that millions of Americans are already engaging in on their own and the porn stars don’t feel coerced into it at all but see it as mostly a fast and easy way to make money.
I get that, DA, and agree with you – and I don’t think anyone has said otherwise. However, I still think the hardcore industry, especially, as a whole, is a perfect example of evil that exists in the hearts of conspiring men (and women, to be fair).
[Admin hat once more:Everyone, we have gone beyond, the rules of this site in the explicit nature of what is being discussed now. I had to delete a couple of things, rather than close the thread. We can have this conversation without getting into descriptive detail. I don’t want to have to close this thread, but we have that rule for an important reason, so please remember and honor it.] SamBee wrote:
(I’ll write a proper reply to your longer message when I’m off this wretched phone – it’s useless with any longer messages.)I know the feeling, anything over a sentence I always select and copy before hitting ‘post’
mackay11 wrote:SamBee wrote:
(I’ll write a proper reply to your longer message when I’m off this wretched phone – it’s useless with any longer messages.)I know the feeling, anything over a sentence I always select and copy before hitting ‘post’
It’s a Blackberry clone, so the keys are tiny, and it often blanks messages or loses them altogether… sometimes I end up with double posts (triple on the previous page, which I managed to remedy later). Either way, it is very annoying, and frustrating! Argh!!!
:thumbdown: :silent: :crazy: 👿 😯 😥 Anyway… I’m going to post again in a second… this time not a genuine double post!Dax wrote:I do understand others pov….I have agreed numerous times that their are different degrees of porn and usage and that most are not forced into it. I have also agreed that there is even a debate about whether or not it can be classified as an addiction. Also that like most things not everyone becomes addicted to it. I have also agreed that it is natural and normal to be attracted to these things for both men and women.
As far as the stats I could link 20 sites on the % of people in the sex industry that were sexually abused as children but I still think you would not believe due to the statistical margin of error that occurs because it is UNDER REPORTED so what is the point?
I suspect as a yardstick though, probably the more extreme the stuff is, the more likely this is to be the case.
If it is this bad, then, ironically I think it will be difficult to get stats, because they’ve hidden it.
Quote:The FBI has an entire task force/department for the sexual exploitation and trafficking of people right here in the US which does not include what is happening in the world. (The agri exploitation and sexual exploitation are both awful.)
Yes the circuit is very real and if you go to the FBI page you will find stats like…. the average age of a child prostitute is 13, that they live on average 7-8 years before dying of disease or physical trauma, that many are marketed through online porn, that johns on average are fined a max of $300 dollars. You are correct though that this type of situation does not make up all porn or even a majority. Most users are not soliciting an encounter and would be horrified if they were told that the girl they were viewing was underage. Problem is it can be very difficult to tell and I find it interesting how many guys are willing to give it a pass and just assume its not what they are viewing.
It is nasty, but from what I can tell some of the worst of this is happening abroad in poor countries. India and the Phillipines are notorious for child sex tourism. But I would imagine it is easier for it to hide in a country like the USA due to the sheer size of the place.
Some interesting, but unpleasant, material here. (Notice that the USA, Canada, UK and Australia seem to be doing something about it, but South Korea isn’t, and Japan isn’t even mentioned at the end.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sex_tourism ” Problem is it can be very difficult to tell and I find it interesting how many guys are willing to give it a pass and just assume its not what they are viewing.”
That’s perfectly true. It can be extremely difficult to guess someone’s age to within a year or two, even teenagers and under.
Quote:Your high schooler was most likely exposed to porn at a young age as most kids are these days and it has warped her view on what normal sex is and what is expected as her role as a female. Or she also could have been sexually abused as a child and is now acting out.
Yeah, all of this is speculation and perfectly possible, but since I rarely bump into her – the last time was five years ago – and barely know her, I can’t really say either way. I’m not going to ask her either, since that’s not something you do. (I do have one or two friends who I know to have been sexually abused as children, but they’ve only told me after they realize I’m a) a good enough friend to tell, and b) able to keep confidences and c) would react to the information respectfully, sympathetically and in a non-judgmental fashion.)
I will say this though. She was the daughter of a teacher, so likely to have been in and around teachers all her life. However, her father almost certainly wasn’t the one to to do that – I’d really seriously doubt it – but one of his visiting colleagues could well have been a culprit. But this is all guesswork, and could be completely untrue. She was also, as I mentioned, something of a feminist, so it is entirely possible that she rationalized this behavior as keeping one step ahead of sexually active teenage males.
Incidentally, the one case of inappropriate contact I do know of at my high school was a FEMALE teacher sleeping with one of my teenage classmates. I don’t know if he was scarred by it, but it’s certainly worth mentioning that an adult woman was responsible for it, rather than the usual male suspects.
Quote:Yes most women are not passive anymore…sorry.
Agreed, but I suspect the church plays into the reverse cliche perhaps.
Quote:We do sexualize youth today in all areas….hmmmm could there be a connection between that and child porn?
I think it’s part of a wider infantilization. We are encouraged to eat with our hands, drink out of the bottle (just like baby), get gratification when we demand it (or throw a tantrum) and so on. For the commercial world, this is good, because the likes of McDonalds rely on adults who are nostalgic about their good times in the place as children… It also harks back to a idealized time when we had less responsibilities, e.g. taxes, work etc etc (It ignores the fact that childhood can actually be quite hard – with bullying etc, children being cruel – or that we relied on adults to support us and look after us.)
Sexualization? Yes. Look at some of the clothes which are sold to children before they can choose their own. And the Katy Perry and Justin Bieber stuff I include has an unpleasant combination of material aimed at under-18s, and over-18s who romanticize childhood… but with sexual overtones that don’t belong.
Because western people are going into a spiral where adults are trying to look younger (practically childlike), through hair removal, and childish behaviors, I think it blurs the distinction between children and adults. Legitimate mates start looking like children, children dress in adult fashions, and adults dress in childish fashions. (Yeah, I’ve seen bachelorette parties where women are dressed as school girls!) I’m not sure this is a good thing. Is it really healthy to have children in G-strings, and women’s nights out where they dress like school girls?!
This is nothing new though. Some of the 1920s girly fashions tended towards this, and women were encouraged to wear clothes which flattened the chest area. I suppose male shaving also makes a grown male look more pre-pubescent/androgynous in a bizarre way, but we’re so used to it after centuries of it, we don’t even think of it.
Quote:It is natural to have sexual desires and I am saddened that “self abuse” is in the CHI.
To be turned on by certain forms of nudity is part of our biological programming. However, I wonder how healthy it is to look at images, when we’re really supposed to form relationships. As I said earlier, love isn’t in it. Men shouldn’t just look upon women as “rowing machines”!
SamBee wrote:To be turned on by certain forms of nudity is part of our biological programming. However, I wonder how healthy it is to look at images, when we’re really supposed to form relationships. As I said earlier, love isn’t in it. Men shouldn’t just look upon women as “rowing machines”!
I agree. I crave intimacy more than sex. I have intimacy in many forms (emotional, spiritual, physical, etc.) with DW. Were I to view porn and be discovered this would probably compromise our ability to achieve the level of trust and safety that I feel is an essential ingredient to true intimacy (at least for a long time). I feel that I respect DW and maintain trust in the exclusivity of our relationship by abstaining.
If my circumstances were different then I might need to re-evaluate, but as it is the expectations and consequences are fairly clear. I make no claims about how porn use is viewed in the divine accounting of things.
I’ve always said that the difference between love and lust is that between wanting to sleep with someone and wanting to wake up beside them. Porn definitely falls into the former category. Wow…amazing thread. I this comes up a lot in the disenfranchised lds space. I think it is our inner teenager coming out asking all the questions repressed Mormons are afraid to ask.
In the few open conversations I have had most have agreed on a few things.
1 porn can be addicting. Most users worried they were addicted while they were tbms. Most used it as an aid to masturbate. Most still had normal sex lives with spouse…this was just a balancing mechanism..
2 much shame and guilt came with porn use. Worry about how to stop the addiction tended to consume thoughts. White knuckle, then fall off the wagon. General use amount? 1 to 4 times a month.
3 after losing faith, most accepted occasional porn use as normal. Masturbation too..just don’t neglect your spouse…keep that relationship healthy. Generally it is a safety valve for when the real thing not convenient or possible.
4 once people lost the guilt and shame, must professed an immediate drop of of desire for porn and masturbation. Thinking about it, worrying, etc…dropped off or disappeared.
I found this to be the case in my own experience. Now that I don’t deem it as a deep moral flaw to worry about..I can say…nah…not really my thing.
I thought this really strange until reading up on it. Turns out the “shame cycle” is a know psych issue that the church pretty much builds on.
Apparently some lds mental experts are trying to get the church to reverse its previous stand on masturbation as it currently creates a lot of mental issues.
Now without the shame I personally can think about the women involved as people…without the compulsion my human side can say ” I don’t want to contribute to degrading women” and find it simple to walk away from images that are clearly demeaning. On the other hand I write enjoy looking at that hot little reporter in “house of cards” ….though she is not ever completely naked.
Church should teach principals and leave application to the people. God cars less about individual actions then our general direction. Have beer cwald…just don’t become an alcoholic..ok? Why? Because we love you man…don’t want to see you suffer through that and you are a nice guy who cares about others. A beer doesn’t stop you from doing good in the world…being an alcoholic probably will.
This make sense? Sorry for the ramble
Ps: nowadays I stay up late reading church related discussions on the internet! That’s more embarrassing than porn! At least people see the attraction to porn.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2
- The topic ‘A Separate Thread to Discuss P*o*r*n’ is closed to new replies.