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Old-Timer wrote:
…there are many elements of porn (hard-core porn, especially) that are not examples of “healthy” sex – and, in many cases,
marital issues arise when a spouse (husband OR wife) begins to want and expect the other spouse to act like the people in the porn– or, knowing there is no way the other spouse is going to act like the people in the porn…There is never sex that isn’t “perfect”; there is never sex that is a compromise…there is never an attempt to do something that is not wanted, a statement of “no, I’m not comfortable with that” and an acknowledgment and acceptance by the person who is comfortable with that; there never is anything that involves real discussion…Lots of porn is “dehumanizing” in the sense that it removes individuality and focuses solely on the animalistic natureof the physical activity to the exclusion of everything else that involves being a human. Roy wrote:SamBee wrote:To be turned on by certain forms of nudity is part of our biological programming. However,
I wonder how healthy it is to look at images, when we’re really supposed to form relationships. As I said earlier, love isn’t in it.Men shouldn’t just look upon women as “rowing machines”! I agree. I crave intimacy more than sex.I have intimacy in many forms (emotional, spiritual, physical, etc.) with DW. Were I to view porn and be discovered this would probably compromise our ability to achieve the level of trust and safety…I feel that I respect DW and maintain trust in the exclusivity of our relationship by abstaining.johnh wrote:Wow…amazing thread…this comes up a lot in the disenfranchised lds space. I think it is our inner teenager coming out…Most users worried they were addicted while they were tbms. Most used it as an aid to masturbate.
Most still had normal sex lives with spouse…this was just a balancing mechanism…General use amount? 1 to 4 times a month…after losing faith, most accepted occasional porn use as normal. Masturbation too.. just don’t neglect your spouse…keep that relationship healthy. Generally it is a safety valve for when the real thing not convenient or possible…This make sense? I think there is a fairly common misconception that porn is mostly just some sort of poor man’s substitute for “the real thing.” Maybe there are some men out there that are watching porn and masturbating so much that they start to lose interest in real women or else their wife is so frigid that they turn to porn mostly out of desperation but my guess is that there are far more examples of men that continue to view porn occasionally and still have sex with their wife or girlfriend just as often if not more so than many men the same age that never look at it. It definitely doesn’t have to be a case of either/or.
Also, I don’t see why there needs to be that much of a connection between porn and real life to begin with. To me it looks like the lasting appeal of porn has almost nothing to do with real life, it is actually quite the opposite because it basically provides a temporary escape from reality just like many other forms of popular entertainment. That’s why the guy that did all the movie previews would always say, “In a world where _”, because the general idea was that the movie is supposed to present a whole different world than what you are used to.
If you watch typical movies and TV shows it is easy to see that they generally intentionally play up the drama, tension, humor, violence, gore, excitement, etc. to extremes. So porn basically does the same type of thing with sexuality and with that being the primary focus of course it will leave out most of the fluff (plot, dialogue, character development, etc.) and jump straight to the good stuff (almost non-stop nudity or sex). Seriously, if people see a high-speed chase, shootouts, murder, etc. in mainstream movies and TV shows they don’t generally try to somehow relate that directly to real life in any way; they usually just sit back and enjoy the show mostly for the sake of pure entertainment alone.
So why is it that porn and even ultra soft-core porn/nudity are taken so much more seriously than everything else? In some countries you don’t even need a special cable package to turn on the TV and see the equivalent of the Playboy Channel but here it seems like many people are especially uptight and uncomfortable about anything more than a few seconds of nudity/sex (if any) for whatever reason so that is the norm you will see in R-rated movies and HBO/Showtime TV shows. That’s why I think it really is more about the Puritan/Victorian traditions and artificial expectations that have already been set than the way it should be in every case with no exceptions. And now the internet is quickly changing things to the point that we are increasingly seeing clashes between the old-school accepted values and the relatively new possibility of quickly and easily finding what you want to see regardless of what everyone else thinks about it.
John Wrote: Quote:Church should teach principals and leave application to the people. God cars less about individual actions then our general direction. Have beer cwald…just don’t become an alcoholic..ok? Why? Because we love you man…don’t want to see you suffer through that and you are a nice guy who cares about others. A beer doesn’t stop you from doing good in the world…being an alcoholic probably will.
Porn. Beer. Church. Sex. Work. Play. Religion. Internet. Bloggernacle…. It’s all the same. “All things in moderation.” I just don’t understand why that concept is so hard for so many people. I don’t get it. I cannot empathize.
For the most part, IMO, people like to be told what to believe and how to act. Fine. Go to church or a mosque or a synagog and let people dictate the details of your life if that is what you want to do.
It doesn’t work for me.
cwald wrote:John Wrote:
Quote:Church should teach principals and leave application to the people. God cars less about individual actions then our general direction. Have beer cwald…just don’t become an alcoholic..ok? Why? Because we love you man…don’t want to see you suffer through that and you are a nice guy who cares about others. A beer doesn’t stop you from doing good in the world…being an alcoholic probably will.
Porn. Beer. Church. Sex. Work. Play. Religion. Internet. Bloggernacle…. It’s all the same. “All things in moderation.” I just don’t understand why that concept is so hard for so many people. I don’t get it. I cannot empathize.
For the most part, IMO, people like to be told what to believe and how to act. Fine. Go to church or a mosque or a synagog and let people dictate the details of your life if that is what you want to do.
It doesn’t work for me.
@john: 25+ years ago…I drank to excess on each of the rare times i drank…under the distinctive logic that I had sinned by taking the first drink, so i might as well enjoy it. One day, after waking up in San Francisco having no idea how i got there, i decided i might need help, so I went to AA. stayed sober for about 24 years…not a drop. the problem is that my alcoholism was in fact a result of the guilt. i was by no means “typical” as an alcoholic, whatever that means, because alcohol was sinful in any quantity, and i had not been anything but a very infrequent binge drinker.when the church lost all moral legitimacy for me as a result of Prop 8, I, like others, declared freedom by drinking some. after removing all guilt, alcohol holds very little sway — i don’t like being drunk at all, and had none of the issues i had before. now, for health reasons, i mostly comply with the prevailing abstinence version of the WoW (liver issues).
i think the moral of this story applies to the topic of this thread. guilt creates unhealthy behaviors. Suppressing natural things like masturbation and other natural urges is harmful, and often causes unhealthy behaviors.
hence, i wouldn’t worry about cwald…
frankly, there is a divine principle here: “moderation in all things…including moderation”
[
Moderator insert: I corrected the spelling of two words. Consider this post moderated in moderation. Ray] I think that post should have been moderated – MODERATOR!!! SamBee wrote:I think that post should have been moderated – MODERATOR!!!
lmaoDone, Sambee and wayfarer. See my comment at the end of wayfarer’s comment. Thanks Ray… all things in moderation! I don’t get it. Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
cwald, Sambee asked jokingly for a moderator to moderate wayfarer’s comment – in moderation. So I jokingly moderated the comment (by fixing spelling errors) in moderation. Don’t know if you need to drink less or more to get it. I’ll let you figure that out.
:shh: This thread is becoming moderately amusing. 
Old-Timer wrote:cwald, Sambee asked jokingly for a moderator to moderate wayfarer’s comment – in moderation. So I jokingly moderated the comment (by fixing spelling errors) in moderation.
Don’t know if you need to drink less or more to get it. I’ll let you figure that out.
:shh: 😈 Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2
Read an article that talked about the Catholic celibacy problem. The idea was that you might have a certain segment of the population that was already dealing with sexual urges that they were uncomfortable with (possibly homosexual, possibly pedophilia, possibly p0rn and M) and they may seek solace in the ranks of the priesthood thinking that the prayer and brotherhood and service will contain the sexual side of themselves to a nice little box on a shelf. Unfortunately, that doesn’t seem to work out so well as a long-term solution. The good news for Mormons is that we eventually get to have a measure of sexual expression and intimacy with our chosen spouse … unless you are gay … :thumbdown: I am thankful this is discussed in church and it’s mentioned over the pulpit. General Authorities receive depressing and disturbing letters from people whose life has been nearly destroyed due to their own or their spouse’s use of pornography. It must be addressed. Lucifer is a big fat jerk (since I shouldn’t use stronger language) and he wants us to be miserable and pornography is one of his favorite tools. “Moderate” use is about as healthy as a regular dose of heroin with a dirty needle.
Though guilt and shame may have been the tone in the past, I don’t sense that coming from the leaders at all now. It is being addressed as a problem for which many people need help and help is being offered.
Shawn wrote:I am thankful this is discussed in church and it’s mentioned over the pulpit. General Authorities receive depressing and disturbing letters from people whose life has been nearly destroyed due to their own or their spouse’s use of pornography. It must be addressed…Lucifer is a big fat jerk…and he wants us to be miserable and pornography is one of his favorite tools.
“Moderate” use is about as healthy as a regular dose of heroin with a dirty needle…Though guilt and shame may have been the tone in the past, I don’t sense that coming from the leaders at all now. It is being addressed as a problem for which many people need help and help is being offered.I can’t imagine what would happen if half as many men were addicted to heroin, crack, meth, etc. or even gambling as there already are that continue to view porn occasionally. It would be a complete disaster of epic proportions. That’s why I don’t buy the evil addiction hype. For most real addictions there are legitimate reasons why people should want to stop and if they don’t then it will generally cause obvious problems in terms of the direct costs and the negative impact it has on their lives and/or health.
However, with porn if someone is single or their wife doesn’t know or care about it that much and they aren’t spending that much time or money on it then in most cases it looks to me like no serious harm will ever be done by it. Personally I think far more actual harm is currently being done by overreactions and making such a big deal out of it than the porn itself ever would in most cases if occasional porn viewing was simply tolerated and ignored. Basically exaggerated anti-Porn rhetoric directly encourages major overreactions in addition to contributing to many men simply keeping it secret and pretending they don’t like it so that’s why it isn’t really helping the situation at all.
DevilsAdvocate wrote:…Personally I think far more actual harm is currently being done by overreactions and making such a big deal out of it than the porn itself ever would in most cases if occasional porn viewing was simply tolerated and ignored. Basically exaggerated anti-Porn rhetoric directly encourages major overreactions in addition to contributing to many men simply keeping it secret and pretending they don’t like it so that’s why it isn’t really helping the situation at all.
Have you been to a meeting with men addicted to this crap? There is no exaggeration or overreaction going on. I think some are not aware of the scope and depth of the problem.
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