- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Also, I don’t buy the “moderation in all things” position at all. That only applies to goodthings. I had thought that people here knew not to take such things so literally. Quote:Read an article that talked about the Catholic
celibacy problem. The idea was that you might
have a certain segment of the population that
was already dealing with sexual urges that
they were uncomfortable with (possibly
homosexual, possibly pedophilia, possibly p0rn and M) and they may seek solace in the
ranks of the priesthood thinking that the
prayer and brotherhood and service will
contain the sexual side of themselves to a
nice little box on a shelf.
The RC priesthood is getting a very bad rap just now. My Catholic friends speak highly of the majority of priests.
I disagree with celibacy for RC priests. (Not for monks but that’s a different story) It was only brought in a thousand years ago, to avoid producing a religious aristocracy in Europe.
The truth is that their priests are human. Too many RC priests started their vocation in boyhood before they could know if they could handle any weakness in this area. The majority of RC priests are heterosexual with normal appetites. Some are asexual. About a third leave to get married to women. However the Church Of Rome has handled molestation very very badly. Not as badly as the JWs but that’s another story.
Shawn wrote:DevilsAdvocate wrote:…Personally I think far more actual harm is currently being done by overreactions and making such a big deal out of it than the porn itself ever would in most cases if occasional porn viewing was simply tolerated and ignored. Basically exaggerated anti-Porn rhetoric directly encourages major overreactions in addition to contributing to many men simply keeping it secret and pretending they don’t like it so that’s why it isn’t really helping the situation at all.
Have you been to a meeting with men addicted to this crap? There is no exaggeration or overreaction going on. I think some are not aware of the scope and depth of the problem.No, but I have known many men that were viewing porn without any obvious problems and that’s one reason it is so hard for me to believe that this is half as serious as some people act like it is. I don’t doubt that it could be very frustrating to try to stop and fail mutliple times especially for men with the added pressure and fear that their wife will divorce them if they don’t quit. Plus the ones that attend these meetings are probably already some of the most extreme cases to begin with. However, my guess is that at least 9 out of 10 men that continue to view porn are not real sex addicts and whatever pain they experience if any as a result of this is mostly the result of people making a big deal about it and if they were told it was alright instead then there wouldn’t be any problem.
I’ve begun attending one of the church’s Addiction Recovery meetings specifically for pornography addiction. People there don’t share specific details about their addictions, so I guess it’s fair to say what constitutes an addiction to them personally or to their spouses might not be by some standards. However, a third to a half say they’ve lost jobs and/or spouses. In most cases, spouses don’t give an ultimatum or seek a divorce unless they catch their addicts on multiple occasions over a number of months or years. Some attendees are frank enough to admit things started in their childhood, usually because of abuse. My impression is that there’s more to it than what DevilsAdvocate thinks. I don’t think guys who had merely taken a couple of looks at porn would stay with the group for very long – especially since even addicts can deny or justify their own problems by saying they’re relatively mild. insomniac wrote:I’ve begun attending one of the church’s Addiction Recovery meetings specifically for pornography addiction. People there don’t share specific details about their addictions, so I guess it’s fair to say what constitutes an addiction to them personally or to their spouses might not be by some standards. However,
a third to a half say they’ve lost jobs and/or spouses. In most cases, spouses don’t give an ultimatum or seek a divorce unless they catch their addicts on multiple occasions over a number of months or years. Some attendees are frank enough to admit things started in their childhood, usually because of abuse. My impression is that there’s more to it than what DevilsAdvocate thinks. I don’t think guys who had merely taken a couple of looks at porn would stay with the group for very long – especially since even addicts can deny or justify their own problems by saying they’re relatively mild. Right, but all that mostly just confirms my theory that with porn the worst problems people associate with it and the supposed need to stop once and for all are typically coming from outside sources rather than being the direct and unavoidable consequences of the behavior itself. The truth is that many of these men don’t really want to stop to begin with and the reasons to stop don’t really belong to them in a personal way but have been artificially imposed on them by others and they don’t feel like they have any choice in the matter so of course you will see relatively poor results sometimes in trying to coerce complete abstinence because sheer willpower and fear and shame based manipulation have their limitations in motivating people especially when no one is looking.
Suppose you only look at men that are self-employed and control their own schedule that are either single or else their wife is willing to put up with porn. In that case, of all the ones that continue to view porn sometimes how many will end up doing this so much that they basically can’t function very well anymore, fail to pay their bills, can’t find time to eat, etc.? There would probably be a few that really don’t know when to stop and spiral out of control but I still think my original guess of less than 10% on average is more accurate than the idea that porn is an extremely dangerous commodity by itself and viewing it is some kind of slippery slope that is likely to ruin people’s lives on a large scale if not completely stopped. If anything the forbidden and secretive nature it has been driven to probably adds to the compulsion to view it even more for some men.
My point is that if you honestly look at it objectively the results you will see in the overwhelming majority of men that continue to view porn sometimes are very different from what you will see with most real addictions, compulsive disorders, or substance abuse problems. I’m not saying that women should be happy about their husband’s porn habits or that businesses should allow their employees to openly view porn while at work. However, to me an unforgiving and strict zero tolerance attitude that it is never acceptable for men to view porn, not even in private and on their own time, sounds almost like someone trying to train pet cobras to never bite their masters and then feeling shocked and betrayed when some of them inevitably revert back to their true nature and still want to bite someone as soon as they get the chance. Basically men can’t help it if they like boobs and sex so no matter how much people try to tell them this is wrong and unacceptable it still doesn’t change their natural state so they are still going to like it and there is no cure for this.
DevilsAdvocate wrote:Shawn wrote:
Have you been to a meeting with men addicted to this crap? There is no exaggeration or overreaction going on. I think some are not aware of the scope and depth of the problem.
No, but I have known many men that were viewing porn without any obvious problems and that’s one reason it is so hard for me to believe that this is half as serious as some people act like it is…
Yes, there are people who view pornography and do not display obvious problems. Some of them will continue that way while others will become addicted.Noneof them will be as better person for having viewed it. Every time people view pornography, a portion of the Spirit withdraws, they are further distanced from God, respect for womanhood decreases, and overall goodness is diminished. I am sad to see people lulled into a sense of carnal security. This has been a long and interesting thread, with multiple viewpoints expressed. It’s time to close it, since pretty much everything that can be said has been said – and we now are at the point of overly-broad, stereotypical generalizations at both ends of the spectrum. Thanks, everyone, for your input.
Ok by way of summary – *Porn has a seedy underbelly. The industry has traditionally had problems with drug abuse, underage persons, abuse of various kinds, etc.
*It can also be addictive based upon your personality (some lose relationships and employment)
*Even if one is not an addict the viewing of porn may adversely affect relationships (by objectifying women, or finding that a real woman can’t compete with the endless variety and instant gratification of porn, or by helping the viewer develop a taste for sex acts that their partner may not consent to, or by breaching the idea of exclusivity within the relationship [depending on what the preconceived notions of exclusivity may be])
OTOH porn need not have any or all of these negative characteristics.
*not all porn performers are abused drug addicts, not everyone who views is an addict.
*Some of the “degrading women” and “developing tastes for fetishes” may be mitigated by being selective about the quality and tastefulness of the nudity.
For those individuals in a committed relationship it is no longer just about how the individual feels about the behavior but also how the couple feels about it. Might one partner feel that the use of porn would be a breach of exclusivity? Might the use of porn by one partner contribute to reduced feelings of self worth and attractiveness by the other partner? It has been proposed that the church reinforces the notion of complete and utter faithfulness after marriage in thought, word, and deed. This is an ideal that contributes to expectations. Some of these expectations may not all pan out in reality, but that doesn’t absolve us of responsibility to deal with others in a way that minimizes harm/provides care to those around us. We don’t get to choose our actions in a vacuum.
IOW various people might come to different conclusions based on their unique perspectives and situations – but it is at least worth noting that there can be serious consequences to this issue that should be thoughtfully considered by responsible adults.
As a summary – this post necessarily restates what has already been written here.
- The topic ‘A Separate Thread to Discuss P*o*r*n’ is closed to new replies.