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August 3, 2021 at 3:06 pm #213081
Anonymous
GuestI believe in the possibility or even eventuality of universal exaltation for a few reasons, but the most basic reason is quite simple: I grew up with an extended family member who was described back then as “retarded”. We now would describe them as developmentally disabled. We already teach that people like them who are born with disabilities that keep them from being able to sin (consciously choose to act in opposition to what they know to be right) will not be punished for anything they do that otherwise would be considered sin. We do that largely because we see them as pure and good, so we understand instinctively that when they do something we normally consider as bad or sinful it is not because they are bad or sinful; rather, we understand that
they simply cannot understand. By doing so, we exclude many millions of people from the “normal” punishments of sin and the standard performance requirements of exaltation. I love that teaching, mostly because it opens the door for universal exaltation in a way we never discuss. What about the other extreme manifestation of the same issue?
Clinical psychopaths are described as being born without a conscience. They literally lack the ability to see right and wrong (or moral and immoral) and to make choices based on that distinction. They act essentially in a purely animalistic, selfish, “natural” manner – because they are unable to act otherwise – because
they simply cannot understand. They are characterized often as purely bad. Conceptually, however, they are in the same situation as the developmentally disabled who generally are seen as purely good – or, at least, not accountable. They lack the ability to make conscious decisions about good and bad and, therefore, default to their “nature”. Our 2nd Article of Faith says people will not be punished for Adam’s transgression – which is another way of saying they won’t be held accountable for the part of themselves they don’t choose. Instead, through the Atonement, they are freed to work on changing those things (repenting), by faith (belief that they can do so), through baptism (which will be performed for every person who ever is born), and by enduring to the end (within a framework of time and all eternity). People with typical developmental disabilities will not be punished for their inability to understand many things and make conscious choices between right and wrong, so, logically, neither will people who are psychopathic.
Here is why I believe this description of the extremes is a description of universal exaltation:
If the Atonement explicitly covers the extremes, including people who are born as psychopaths (usually seen as the “worst” people possible), then I cannot fathom it not covering everyone between those extremes.August 3, 2021 at 4:01 pm #341655Anonymous
GuestThanks OT. I am like minded. I also believe that our all loving Heavenly Parents whose work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal lifeof humans do everything possible to accomplish their work and glory – and “with God nothing is impossible.” August 3, 2021 at 6:01 pm #341656Anonymous
GuestUnfortunately, belief systems are not exactly built upon logic. 
Nevertheless, it can’t hurt to have logic on your side when called upon to explain your beliefs.
August 3, 2021 at 9:54 pm #341657Anonymous
GuestPsychopaths have an excuse, but there are those who are knowingly sadistic, and therein lies the problem. I mention a notorious serial killer on another recent thread – Ted Bundy – but the most damage is done by people “obeying orders”, i.e. those who are part of a power structure. Many more are killed by them than by lone wolves. If you’ve ever read about Mao’s China, you’ll have heard about the terrible pain inflicted during the Cultural Revolution. The death toll of that regime is tens of millions which makes monsters like Bundy seem moderate by comparison. August 4, 2021 at 4:55 pm #341658Anonymous
GuestI think that old-timer’s theory argues that all humans are limited in knowledge, limited in choice, limited in ability. We teach that the only way for accountability to happen is through agency yet the best that we can hope for in this life is partial agency. Quote:Luke 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.
Those that are part of a power structure or system of oppression would seem to have pretty limited choices.
Once we move on from a punishment/reward model to a model of growth then each person can be allowed to grow at their own pace and for as long as is necessary.
In as much as we have the ability to choose the good, let us choose the good!
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