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I had forgotten about a post on By Common Consent that was written a little over a year ago – until I checked my own blog and realized I had linked to it in the post that appeared at midnight tonight. It is called “ Grace vis-a-vis Violence” – and it really is stunning. Just like the last post to which I linked a few hours ago, I encourage everyone to read it – and comment here if you want to do so.
http://bycommonconsent.com/2009/04/20/grace-vis-a-vis-violence/ The scriptures contain three main explanations for suffering: 1. God punishes those who disobey him.
In this case, God causes the suffering.
Example: Israel is defeated militarily and taken into captivity by foreign invaders because they did not worship YHWH correctly (or some other god).
2. God allows suffering to happen because of the sin of others.
In this case, people cause suffering, and God allows it but does not directly cause it.
Example: A king of Israel is wicked, and Israel is defeated militarily and suffers because the king is not faithful (even though people individually might not have sinned and deserved to be killed/enslaved)
3. Suffering exists to foster a greater good.
The cause is a combination of the above two, but is directed in both cases by the will of God to enlighten people or to bring about a greater good.
Examples: Christ did no wrong, but he suffered to bring about the atonement for others. The apostle Paul suffered in order to prove that he was a true disciple of Jesus Christ (his own viewpoint in his letters). And in Mormon theology, we suffer in our life so that we will learn lessons (a process of enlightenment).
I posit a fourth explanation from my current view of existence: We suffer because we want suffering more than not suffering. We will suffer and cause suffering until we decide (collectively) to stop. This is very similar to #3, except that it doesn’t require a central authority (God) directing and orchestrating the suffering. In my own view, we can decide to no longer suffer. We can still experience physical pain, but spiritual suffering is a choice we make. We experience and cause suffering by wanting something else (anger, violence, revenge, theft, etc.) more than peace, especially more than giving up our mortal life.
Brian Johnston wrote:I posit a fourth explanation from my current view of existence: We suffer because we want suffering more than not suffering. We will suffer and cause suffering until we decide (collectively) to stop. This is very similar to #3, except that it doesn’t require a central authority (God) directing and orchestrating the suffering. In my own view, we can decide to no longer suffer. We can still experience physical pain, but spiritual suffering is a choice we make. We experience and cause suffering by wanting something else (anger, violence, revenge, theft, etc.) more than peace, especially more than giving up our mortal life.
This sounds like a Buddhist idea. I haven’t studied a lot of the ideas, but a friend of mine was a Buddhist. He said that much suffering comes from wanting things. Fix your “wanter” and then you replace suffering with happiness. Not happy you don’t have a nice house to live in? Then stop wanting it. Unhappiness gone.
Personally, I found this to be a not-very-satisfying way of looking at life. I’ve never been able to fix my wanter as the Buddhists suggest.
Rather than “fixing my wanter”, I have worked on being at peace with the gap between what I want to be and what I am. Notice, I did not say “between what I want and what I have.” There’s an important difference. That’s where the idea of grace and mercy amid “failure” (and, in the case of the post to which I linked, “violence”) resonates so strongly with me. I live a life full of paradoxes, and it isn’t easy to recognize them and strike an appropriate balance between competing extremes. It’s the idea that there is “salvation / redemption” IN AND DURING what I call the “muddle in the middle” that inspires me to strive to become perfect (“complete, whole, fuly developed”) while not letting my inability to do so in the here and now keep me from trying, regardless. (Personally, I like “redemption” more than “salvation”.)
It’s finding peace in the journey and letting go of the need to fight or struggle – and that isn’t a natural thing, especially for those who are less inclined to let go than I am.
To me suffering just is. If you try and ascribe a reason for it, you run into the whole philosophical and theological problem of evil and suffering. Bart Ehrman in his book, “God’s Problem” examines it from a bunch of different angles and explains why this idea alone was the cause for his loss of faith. For me to say that God has anything to do with evil and suffering in the world other than that the world is what it is and He’s given His spirit and grace to help us deal with it is to just find myself on that path to total loss of faith. I know little about Buddhism but agree that all life is suffering, that it has a cause, and there is a way out of it. But it’s like Brian said, Quote:I posit a fourth explanation from my current view of existence: We suffer because we want suffering more than not suffering. We will suffer and cause suffering until we decide (collectively) to stop.
GBSmith wrote:Bart Ehrman in his book, “God’s Problem” …
I just so happen to be reading that book right now. I like his other books better, but I really like his work. This one though, it’s the most nihilistic of his works I have read. He seems to have really hit a low point in his personal spiritual journey at the point that he wrote it.
Quote:It just so happen to be reading that book right now.
He does have an ax to grind. I remember hearing him on NPR one time saying that he’d moved over the years from fundamentalist christian and graduate of the Moody Bible Institute to attending an episcopalian church in Chapel Hill. One Sunday he realized the only thing in the creed he believed was the line about Jesus being crucified, dead, and buried and so he just gave it all up. Almost sounds like one of us but hasn’t moved past the point of trying to convince everyone else. Sorry for the diversion.
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