A Thread For Talks and Lessons

[Anonymous]

mom3 wrote:

Katzpur – I second Heber13 thought. Also use other Uchtdorf talks about inclusion, not judging, etc. I also posted and LDS Living article yesterday, you could probably cheat and mention that you happened to read it at the same time you were prepping the lesson and use some quotes. Lastly Chieko Okazaki has some great quotes and pieces on inclusion. You can drop my FMH to get those lessons or face book Chieko Okazaki. Good luck.

I got out Chieko Okazaki’s first book (I think), “Lighten Up!” and it had some good ideas. I didn’t realize there was a Chieko Facebook page, though. Thanks for the tip! And I’ve pulled quite a bit of stuff from Terry Givens’ “Crucible of Doubt.” I’m almost afraid to give him the credit, though. I’m pretty sure a lot of people out there don’t hold him in as high regard as I do.

Off topic, but wouldn’t you just love to hear Chieko’s thoughts on the new policy? If only she were still here. It’s hard to imagine her remaining silent on the subject of children being excluded from the Church.

[Anonymous]

Katzpur asked,

Quote:

Off topic, but wouldn’t you just love to hear Chieko’s thoughts on the new policy? If only she were still here. It’s hard to imagine her remaining silent on the subject of children being excluded from the Church.

Yes I would. I desperately wish we had her voice at this time. She could clarify, instruct, mend, heal, and inspire in a way that is desperately needed now. I think she would be heartsick to think children were being excluded. She taught children all her life, she encouraged inclusion of our LGBT brothers and sisters, she always worked to encourage people to be their best, to live up to their best. The new policy does none of that.

To extend your off topic-ness, with each recent turn of church wheel I find myself missing her more and more. The last two Women’s Essays could have used her voice. She really is a prophetess to me.

[Anonymous]

I gave a talk about coming closer to Christ by seeking light and truth. I wish that I had found the Harper talk I referenced in another thread, but only because I would have quoted from it – I think the message is the same. I may have referenced D&C 88:118 more prominently, though.

I began by referencing the “admonition of Paul” referenced in the AofF and found in Philippians 4:8

Quote:

…whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

I then quoted John 14:6 (I am the way, the truth, and the light…) and John 8:12 (I am the light of the world…) and bore testimony of the Savior. I reminded the congregation of something our visiting authority said at stake conference that the atonement encompasses not only the events in the garden, on which we focus, but also the suffering after that and on the cross and the resurrection and is not complete without any of those parts.

I said that Jesus was a teacher of truth and the greatest truth he taught was to love our God, our neighbors, one another, and even our enemies and then quoted Pres. Monson:

Quote:

We cannot truly love God if we do not love our fellow travelers on this mortal journey. Likewise, we cannot fully love our fellowmen if we do not love God, the Father of us all. The Apostle John tells us, “This commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.” We are all spirit children of our Heavenly Father and, as such, are brothers and sisters. As we keep this truth in mind, loving all of God’s children will become easier.

Actually, love is the very essence of the gospel, and Jesus Christ is our Exemplar. His life was a legacy of love. The sick He healed; the downtrodden He lifted; the sinner He saved. At the end the angry mob took His life. And yet there rings from Golgotha’s hill the words: “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do”—a crowning expression in mortality of compassion and love. (General Conference April 2014)

Followed by Elder Christofferson (April 2012 GC):

Quote:

“This is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.

“And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.

“And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned.

“… And whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost. …

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them” (3 Nephi 11:32-35, 39).

This is our message, the rock upon which we build, the foundation of everything else in the Church. Like all that comes from God, this doctrine is pure, it is clear, it is easy to understand—even for a child. With glad hearts, we invite all to receive it.

I briefly talked about my return to activity and said the first scriptures I read after deciding to return were the words of the Savior in the New Testament and that they did speak peace and truth to me.

I then said that while Jesus is the great teacher of truth, the Holy Ghost is also a witness of truth and quoted Jesus talking about the comforter (John 15:26 & 16:13) and quoted from Moroni 10.

I talked about how our interactions with the Holy Ghost are very personal and are usually cherished experiences because they are directly between us and God and quoted Elder Oaks

Quote:

…we pray directly to our Heavenly Father, and He answers us by the channels He has established, without any mortal intermediary. We pray to our Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ, and He answers us through His Holy Spirit and in other ways. The mission of the Holy Ghost is to testify of the Father and the Son, to guide us into truth, and to show us all things we should do. This personal line of communication with our Heavenly Father through His Holy Spirit is the source of our testimony of truth, of our knowledge, and of our personal guidance from a loving Heavenly Father. It is an essential feature of His marvelous gospel plan, which allows each one of His children to receive a personal witness of its truth. (General Conference Oct. 2010)

and Pres. Eyring (Oct. 2014 GC)

Quote:

That personal revelation of acceptance, for which we all long, does not come easily, nor does it come simply for the asking. The Lord gave this standard for the capacity to receive such witnesses from God. It is a guide for anyone seeking personal revelation, as we all must.

Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven. (D&C 121:45)

followed by another from Oaks:

Quote:

Revelations from God—the teachings and directions of the Spirit—are not constant. We believe in continuing revelation, not continuous revelation. We are often left to work out problems without the dictation or specific direction of the Spirit. That is part of the experience we must have in mortality. (Ensign, March 1997)

I said that my experiences with the Holy Ghost had been like those described by Eyring and Oaks, and were subtle and more of an ongoing process as opposed to events.

I talked about Peter saying God knows our hearts and how what we think we need or want is not always what God sees, and that our experiences are uniquely ours and that they color our understanding and perception and quoted 1 Cor 13:9-12 (for we know in part…).

I said we also learn from both ancient and modern prophets and apostles and said much of what we consider scripture – the Bible, BoM, and D&C – were written by men we consider to be prophets and apostles and quoted the 8th and 9th Articles of Faith followed by D&C 1:38-39 (What I the Lord have spoken…) and D&C 68:4 (whatsoever they shall speak…).

I said that while it is important to learn spiritual truths, it is also important to learn other truths and quoted from D&C 88:118 (seek ye diligently…) and talked about how Joseph smith was a seeker of truth and quoted him:

Quote:

“One of the grand fundamental principles of Mormonism is to receive truth, let it come from where it may.” (History of the Church 5:499)

“In knowledge there is power. God has more power than all other beings, because He has greater knowledge;…” (History of the Church 5:340)

followed by D&C 130:18-19 (whatever principle of intelligence…)

I told the story of Giordano Bruno who in the 1500s had a vision of the universe being endless with endless worlds, but he was persecuted because it didn’t match the church teachings of the day even though some scientists had offered the same idea and shortly after he was burned at the stake the idea became commonly accepted.

I quoted Pres. Uchtdorf:

Quote:

Part of our problem in the quest for truth is that human wisdom has disappointed us so often. We have so many examples of things that mankind once “knew” were true but have since been proven false.

For example, in spite of one-time overwhelming consensus, the earth isn’t flat. The stars don’t revolve around the earth. Eating a tomato will not cause instant death. And, of course, man actually can fly—even break the sound barrier.

The scriptures are filled with stories of men and women who misinterpreted “truth.” …

So often the “truths” we tell ourselves are merely fragments of the truth, and sometimes they’re not really the truth at all….

The “truths” we cling to shape the quality of our societies as well as our individual characters. All too often these “truths” are based on incomplete and inaccurate evidence, and at times they serve very selfish motives.

Part of the reason for poor judgment comes from the tendency of mankind to blur the line between belief and truth. We too often confuse belief with truth, thinking that because something makes sense or is convenient, it must be true. Conversely, we sometimes don’t believe truth or reject it—because it would require us to change or admit that we were wrong. Often, truth is rejected because it doesn’t appear to be consistent with previous experiences.

When the opinions or “truths” of others contradict our own, instead of considering the possibility that there could be information that might be helpful and augment or complement what we know, we often jump to conclusions or make assumptions that the other person is misinformed, mentally challenged, or even intentionally trying to deceive.

Unfortunately, this tendency can spread to all areas of our lives—from sports to family relationships and from religion to politics. (CES Devotional 2013)

And Obi Wan Kenobi:

Quote:

Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.

followed by Pres. Uchtdorf from last GC:

Quote:

This beautiful gospel is so simple a child can grasp it, yet so profound and complex that it will take a lifetime—even an eternity—of study and discovery to fully understand it.

But sometimes we take the beautiful lily of God’s truth and gild it with layer upon layer of man-made good ideas, programs, and expectations. Each one, by itself, might be helpful and appropriate for a certain time and circumstance, but when they are laid on top of each other, they can create a mountain of sediment that becomes so thick and heavy that we risk losing sight of that precious flower we once loved so dearly.

and closed with testimony.

[Anonymous]

Great, calming talk. Thanks for sharing it. I love the DFU – OWK – DFU finale quotes.

[Anonymous]

I can’t remember what blog had a reference to this, but I read an old talk from Stephen L. Richards – 1932! I quite like it.

https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/015-43-46.pdf” class=”bbcode_url”>https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/015-43-46.pdf

I really like this

Quote:

I have said these things because I fear dictatorial dogmatism, rigidity of procedure and intolerance even more than I fear cigarettes, cards, and other devices the adversary may use to nullify faith and kill religion. Fanaticism and bigotry have been the deadly enemies of true religion in the long past. They have made it forbidding, shut it up in cold grey walls of monastery and nunnery, out of the sunlight and fragrance of the growing world. They have garbed it in black and then in white, when in truth it is neither black nor white, any more than life is black or white, for religion is life abundant, glowing life, with all its shades, colors and hues, as the children of men reflect in the patterns of their lives the radiance of the Holy Spirit in varying degrees.

It did make me chuckle on the way he talks about “playing cards” and “billiards” as sins – or at least time wasters. Note that TV didn’t come to Utah until 1948 – 16 years later. I wonder what he would say about social media and kids today!

[Anonymous]

I like the Obi Wan reference. :clap: Seriously, very nice address. I also enjoy reading them after, they sometimes become the best sermons I hear all week.

[Anonymous]

I spoke yesterday on the meaning of Christmas.

I started by telling them my daughter’s quote after attending the temple for the first time:

Quote:

We spend so much time building the kingdom of God that we forget to establish Zion.

I then said that the meaning of Christmas depends greatly on how we view the Kingdom of God. I asked everyone to close their eyes and picture a kingdom. Then I asked them how they would describe what they saw in their mind’s eye. I asked them if there were large castles, clean and bright streets, smiling and happy and well-fed people, etc. Nearly all of them smiled and nodded in agreement. Then I said:

Quote:

So, when we think of the Kingdom of God, we usually picture a Disney movie – but that is radically different than what we see in the New Testament about Jesus, of Nazareth, his own life and the followers he gathered around him during his ministry.

I told them I believe we miss the real meaning of Christmas if we don’t focus on and understand Jesus’ early life, his ministry and whom he focused on teaching. The following is a simple outline of how I addressed that misunderstanding:

1) “The whole need not a physician, but the sick.”

2) Mary was unmarried when she became pregnant. Without Joseph’s acceptance and support, her baby probably would have been raised in abject poverty – and it is likely he either would have been discarded as trash, literally, to die or sold into slavery, as was the custom in that time and culture for babies born without available support.

3) When he was a young child (probably 1-2 years old), his parents took him and fled a terrorist attack in his homeland, seeking refuge in the strongest opposition to the Roman Empire – Egypt. We have no idea in the Bible how many others in that area learned what Herod and decreed and was doing and fled with Joseph and Mary – but it is reasonable to believe there were many.

4) When he started his ministry, he taught in the synagogues, but his followers were mostly the poor, the sick, the sinners, the publicans, the outcast, the rejected – “the least of these”. In a very real way, he served those like himself in his earliest years.

I told them that I see the meaning of Christmas as the message that every person on this earth, including those whom others can’t love and accept and serve, is of equal worth in the eyes of God, with equal potential – and that we will not honor the true meaning of Christmas if our congregations and dreams resemble a Disney movie more than the people whom Jesus served in his ministry. I asked them to think of persons and people whom they naturally tend to judge and avoid – and to reach out, somehow, in their busy lives, to those specific people.

The following are two posts that were the foundation of my talk:

“Thoughts on the Meaning of the Birth of Jesus” (http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/12/08/thoughts-on-the-meaning-of-the-birth-of-jesus/)

“It Is Finished: Death on Easter Sunday” (http://thingsofmysoul.blogspot.com/2008/03/it-is-finished-death-on-easter-sunday_9863.html)

[Anonymous]

http://introvertedrm.blogspot.com/2015/12/the-doctrine-of-christ-talk-given-may.html

Here’s a link to my talk I gave a while back. I will update it later with direct links to the sources I quoted. Hope you enjoy!

[Anonymous]

I recently spoke to a YSA ward with Pres. Uchtdorf’s address from October GC as the assigned reference talk.

I began by introducing the topic of the talk, telling them it would sound like a glowing review of why the church is so great, but a significant portion of the talk was for those for whom it does not work wonderfully.

Quote:

But I also recognize that there are some who have a less-than-fulfilling experience—who feel that their membership in the Church sometimes isn’t quite what they had hoped for….

…why does it seem to work better for some than for others? What is the difference between those whose experience in the Church fills their souls with songs of redeeming love and those who feel that something is lacking?

I told them I had pondered the question and that there is no simple answer. But Pres. Uchtdorf did give two pieces of advice that apply to everybody: simplify and start where you are.

Quote:

First: are we making our discipleship too complicated?

This beautiful gospel is so simple a child can grasp it, yet so profound and complex that it will take a lifetime—even an eternity—of study and discovery to fully understand it.

But sometimes we take the beautiful lily of God’s truth and gild it with layer upon layer of man-made good ideas, programs, and expectations. Each one, by itself, might be helpful and appropriate for a certain time and circumstance, but when they are laid on top of each other, they can create a mountain of sediment that becomes so thick and heavy that we risk losing sight of that precious flower we once loved so dearly.

I reiterated and testified of the simplicity of the gospel, then quoted Joseph Smith:

Quote:

The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.

and 3 Nephi 11 (the Doctrine of Christ):

Quote:

And this is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me;…and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me.

And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God….

…Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them.

I again testified of Christ and paraphrased I Know That My Redeemer Lives:

Quote:

And He lives who once was dead

He lives to bless me with His love, to comfort me when faint, to hear my soul’s complaint, to silence all my fears, to wipe away my tears…

What comfort this sweet sentence gives – I know that my Redeemer lives

I told them Heavenly Father and Jesus give so much and ask so little and quoted John 3:16-17

Quote:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

I told them it really is that simple.

I told them I wasn’t trying to say church programs are a distraction and unnecessary, but if we focus on the simplicity of the core gospel principles everything we need to do will become clear.

Uchtdorf:

Quote:

Brothers and sisters, if you ever think that the gospel isn’t working so well for you, I invite you to step back, look at your life from a higher plane, and simplify your approach to discipleship. Focus on the basic doctrines, principles, and applications of the gospel. I promise that God will guide and bless you on your path to a fulfilling life, and the gospel will definitely work better for you.

I talked about us all being on spiritual journeys to discover truth for ourselves and how early in our journeys we need to rely on others like parents and church leaders but as we mature we have to work it out for ourselves.

1 Corinthians 13:11

Quote:

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

I said that Elder Oaks once talked about communication with heaven being trhough two lines, a pristhood line and a personal line: (GC Oct. 2010):

Quote:

In the personal line we pray directly to our Heavenly Father, and He answers us by the channels He has established, without any mortal intermediary. We pray to our Heavenly Father in the name of Jesus Christ, and He answers us through His Holy Spirit and in other ways. The mission of the Holy Ghost is to testify of the Father and the Son, to guide us into truth, and to show us all things we should do. This personal line of communication with our Heavenly Father through His Holy Spirit is the source of our testimony of truth, of our knowledge, and of our personal guidance from a loving Heavenly Father. It is an essential feature of His marvelous gospel plan, which allows each one of His children to receive a personal witness of its truth.

And said most of us have had some experience with the personal line Elder Oaks describes, then quoted from Oaks in an Ensign article from March 1997:

Quote:

…we should recognize that the Lord will speak to us through the Spirit in his own time and in his own way. Many people do not understand this principle. They believe that when they are ready and when it suits their convenience, they can call upon the Lord and he will immediately respond, even in the precise way they have prescribed. Revelation does not come that way.

“Therefore, sanctify yourselves that your minds become single to God, and the days will come that you shall see him; for he will unveil his face unto you, and it shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will” (D&C 88:68).

The principle stated in that revelation applies to every communication from our Heavenly Father: “It shall be in his own time, and in his own way, and according to his own will.” We cannot force spiritual things….

Not understanding the[se] principles of revelation, some people postpone acknowledging their testimony until they have experienced a miraculous event. They fail to realize that with most people…gaining a testimony is not an event but a process.

I said that brings us to Pres. Uchtdorf’s other point:

Quote:

Sometimes we feel discouraged because we are not “more” of something—more spiritual, respected, intelligent, healthy, rich, friendly, or capable. Naturally, there is nothing wrong with wanting to improve. God created us to grow and progress. But remember, our weaknesses can help us to be humble and turn us to Christ, who will “make weak things become strong.”

I told them I had felt that way sometimes, but eventually realized I was not alone and realized it doesn’t matter what other know and believe, it matters what I know and believe and quoted John Taylor:

Quote:

Adam’s revelation did not instruct Noah to build his ark; nor did Noah’s revelation tell Lot to forsake Sodom; nor did either of these speak of the departure of the children of Israel from Egypt. These all had revelations for themselves.

I said that likewise our revelations and testimonies are ours and not our neighbor’s and summarized D&C 46 where it talks about people having different gifts. I told them the list was not exhaustive and that I thought it interesting that it did not include the gift of revelation – but that’s probably because that gift is available to everyone. Then I quoted Pres. Uchtdorf from Oct. 2014 GC:

Quote:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a place for people with all kinds of testimonies. There are some members of the Church whose testimony is sure and burns brightly within them. Others are still striving to know for themselves. The Church is a home for all to come together, regardless of the depth or the height of our testimony. I know of no sign on the doors of our meetinghouses that says, “Your testimony must be this tall to enter.”

and

Quote:

If you expect to find perfect people here, you will be disappointed. But if you seek the pure doctrine of Christ, the word of God “which healeth the wounded soul,” and the sanctifying influence of the Holy Ghost, then here you will find them. In this age of waning faith—in this age when so many feel distanced from heaven’s embrace—here you will find a people who yearn to know and draw closer to their Savior by serving God and fellowmen, just like you. Come, join with us!

I testified that you can find peace and truth here but you must seek it and quoted 1 Corinthians 13

Quote:

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

and I concluded with Pres. Uchtdorf:

Quote:

Exaltation is our goal; discipleship is our journey.

As you exercise a little faith and begin your walk as a peaceable follower of our Lord Jesus Christ, your heart will change. Your whole being will be filled with light.

God will help you become something greater than you ever thought possible. And you will discover that the gospel of Jesus Christ is indeed working in your life.

[Anonymous]

I haven’t posted here in awhile so decided it’s time to resurrect the thread. I have given talks over the past months, but I don’t think I will rehash them now. I also gave one this month, though. The topic was something like coming closer to Christ by choosing to believe in Christ.

I started with saying we all make choices, some mundane (like what tie to wear), some more important, and some that may have eternal implications. Then I quoted Pres. Monson from April GC (this was a reference talk):

Quote:

As we contemplate the decisions we make in our lives each day—whether to make this choice or that choice—if we choose Christ, we will have made the correct choice.

I then said one of the first things Jesus taught the Nephites was the doctrine of Christ and quoted from 3 NE 31-35 and 39, followed by Elder Christofferson’s quote from April 2012 GC:

Quote:

This is our message, the rock upon which we build, the foundation of everything else in the Church. Like all that comes from God, this doctrine is pure, it is clear, it is easy to understand—even for a child. With glad hearts, we invite all to receive it.

I said the doctrine was simple, only asked that we believe and be baptized, and bore a brief testimony of the life, death, and resurrection of Christ.

I said we symbolically profess belief in Christ at baptism and again weekly as we partake of the sacrament.

I told them that while we partake of the sacrament together, it is really a personal and individual ordinance.

I talked about wine as a symbol of the blood of Christ and why we use water instead, quoting D&C 27:2, and then said I had pondered on the significance of wine vs. water and the following came to mind:

Quote:

But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life. (John 4:13-14)

and also quoted John 6:35 (I am the bread of life).

I talked about hearing testimonies of Christ from members and non-members and that what they seemed to have in common was hope and quoted from the hymn Redeemer of Israel.

I then said there were many in the world who doubted, were uncertain, or just didn’t believe in Christ and quoted 1 Cor 12:3 (no man can say Jesus is Lord….) and said real testimonies come from the Holy Ghost.

Then I said I had learned two things about testimonies. The first is just because I have a testimony of something doesn’t mean everyone else does.

I talked about people sitting in F&TM and hearing testimonies of what others know and thinking to themselves that they don’t know that and perhaps thinking there is something wrong with them or God doesn’t love them, etc., and said those ideas are false and quoted Pres. Uchtdorf:

Quote:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a place for people with all kinds of testimonies. There are some members of the Church whose testimony is sure and burns brightly within them. Others are still striving to know for themselves. The Church is a home for all to come together, regardless of the depth or the height of our testimony. I know of no sign on the doors of our meetinghouses that says, “Your testimony must be this tall to enter.”

The Church is not just for perfect people, but it is for all to “come unto Christ, and be perfected in him.” The Church is for people like you and me. The Church is a place of welcoming and nurturing, not of separating or criticizing. It is a place where we reach out to encourage, uplift, and sustain one another as we pursue our individual search for divine truth.

In the end, we are all pilgrims seeking God’s light as we journey on the path of discipleship. We do not condemn others for the amount of light they may or may not have; rather, we nourish and encourage all light until it grows clear, bright, and true.

I told them the second thing I learned is that testimonies can be fragile and that sometimes we end up in crisis mode questioning all that we believe. I then quoted Elder Holland:

Quote:

In moments of fear or doubt or troubling times, hold the ground you have already won, even if that ground is limited. In the growth we all have to experience in mortality…desperation is going to come to all of us. When those moments come and issues surface, the resolution of which is not immediately forthcoming, hold fast to what you already know and stand strong until additional knowledge comes.

I said we might also recognize these crisis times as times of maturing and quoted 1 Cor 13:11 (when I was a child…) and talked about how as adults we recognize there are things we wholeheartedly believed as children that we can no longer believe (I was alluding to Santa Claus but couldn’t come right out and say so in front of the children). I said some things we think are true are really based on incomplete information and quoted Pres. Uchtdorf:

Quote:

The “truths” we cling to shape the quality of our societies as well as our individual characters. All too often these “truths” are based on incomplete and inaccurate evidence, and at times they serve very selfish motives.

…We too often confuse belief with truth, thinking that because something makes sense or is convenient, it must be true. Conversely, we sometimes don’t believe truth or reject it—because it would require us to change or admit that we were wrong.

When the opinions or “truths” of others contradict our own, instead of considering the possibility that there could be information that might be helpful and augment or complement what we know, we often jump to conclusions or make assumptions that the other person is misinformed, mentally challenged, or even intentionally trying to deceive.

I then quoted some Pew statistics illustrating that Mormons were only a very tiny portion of Christians and Christians were only a third of the world population anyway.

I then talked about how only about a third of members are active in most places, with the exception of the Mormon Corridor which is closer to half. The other extreme has Chile where it’s only about 10-15%. I then said it wasn’t unique to us and that organization like Pew and Gallup demonstrate that only about a third of all Christians int he US attend church regularly, and the same organizations also show that younger generations are less likely to attend than older ones. I said we don’t know why that is.

I thine talked about the domino effects we like to use – if JS was a prophet, the BoM and church are true, etc., but said dominoes can fall in both directions and sometimes people who discover things that may lead them to believe JS was not a prophet then also conclude the BoM and church are not true and talked about how I experienced a similar thing myself and told them it’s not all or nothing or either all right or all wrong.

I then quoted from Pew again and talked about significant portions of members who support things like gay marriage and abortion.

I told them we’re not all gingerbread men and women and we’re not meant to be, that we don’t have to believe all the same, and quoted Elder Wirthlin:

Quote:

Some are lost because they are different. They feel as though they don’t belong. Perhaps because they are different, they find themselves slipping away from the flock. They may look, act, think, and speak differently than those around them and that sometimes causes them to assume they don’t fit in. They conclude that they are not needed.

Tied to this misconception is the erroneous belief that all members of the Church should look, talk, and be alike. The Lord did not people the earth with a vibrant orchestra of personalities only to value the piccolos of the world. Every instrument is precious and adds to the complex beauty of the symphony. All of Heavenly Father’s children are different in some degree, yet each has his own beautiful sound that adds depth and richness to the whole.

I told them we should hold on to our own knowledge, beliefs and hopes and not compare ourselves to the beliefs of others, and told them believing is not a childish thing to be put away and quoted 1 Cor 13_12-13 NRSV (for now we see in a mirror…).

I said there really isn’t much we have to believe and quoted John 3:16-17 (for God so loved the world…) followed by this quote from Elder Renlund (the other reference talk):

Quote:

The closer we are to Jesus Christ in the thoughts and intents of our hearts, the more we appreciate His innocent suffering, the more grateful we are for grace and forgiveness, and the more we want to repent and become like Him. Our absolute distance from Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ is important, but the direction we are heading is even more crucial. God is more pleased with repentant sinners who are trying to draw closer to Him than with self-righteous, faultfinding individuals who, like the Pharisees and scribes of old, do not realize how badly they need to repent.

I said we can’t buy our stairways to heaven, that only through the redemption of Christ could we return.

I said no amount of wearing white shirts, doing 100% home teaching or paying tithing on gross or a myriad of other Pharisaical rules could change that eternal truth.

Our salvation hinges on the testimony that Jesus is the Christ, but that Jesus didn’t say we had to have a sure knowledge of that now but he did say over and over again that we need to believe. I said that belief could be very small, it could be nothing more than a hope or desire to believe and that your belief, hope, and desire is between you and God.

I told them that when we undertake to complicate the doctrine of Christ we risk damaging the good the gospel brings and quoted from the hymn Sweet is the Peace the Gospel Brings (which we had coincidentally sung as an opening hymn).

I closed with a brief testimony of believing Christ and finding peace.

[Anonymous]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I wish I could have been there to hear the talk.

[Anonymous]

Old Timer wrote:

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I wish I could have been there to hear the talk.

I was interested in the post-talk comments, Ray. I did get more than the usual amounts of “good talk” and got some very sincere thank yous from some of those who are more on the fringe. One more orthodox guy did say he thought the stats were interesting and I told him I would really love to see the stats specifically for millennials and generation x because I thought we’d see much higher percentages of agreement with things like SSM and he agreed. (I alluded to the idea that the reason we’re losing those age groups is because of the ultra-conservative stance of the church.)

I was not surprised at the reaction of the picayune penguins. Not a word, even though I made a special point of shaking some specific hands and saying hi afterward.

[Anonymous]

I’m being obedient and posting my talk I gave here. I did quote a comment on and earlier post where I said I needed ideas, and the discussion there actually took me in the direction of this talk. It seems really long when I look at it, my apologies.

“The Gospel Unites Us All”

I’m going to begin this talk with a story that I read about 6 years ago written by an accomplished Church historian named Ardis Parshall. I’m sharing this story, because I want you to remember my talk. And also, because I love crying when I’m up here SO MUCH, that I wanted you all to join me.

During the World War II years, the Germans occupied Holland. Through it all, the Dutch Saints, along with the rest of Holland, were steadily impoverished. Hundreds of thousands of homes were destroyed by bombing; hundreds of square miles of farmland were flooded as dikes were breached. The country’s railcars were diverted to Germany; motor vehicles and even bicycles were confiscated; blankets, clothing, and household goods were requisitioned by Germany, leaving virtually nothing for the Dutch themselves. Whole factories were dismantled for shipment to German territory.

The real troubles began in September, 1944, when the British attacked the Germans at the Dutch city of Arnhem. The Dutch supported the British attack in every way possible, including a transportation strike. The Germans retaliated by starving the Dutch into submission. Cities along the North Sea were isolated from the rest of the country, with no food shipments allowed in. No fuel was delivered, and people burned everything – including their household furniture – to survive the winter of 1944-45. The people starved, some dropping dead on the street as they hunted for food and fuel. When the Allies entered Holland in the spring of 1945, they found a completely demoralized people, so exhausted that nothing mattered except securing enough food to live another day. The daily ration for most of the Dutch had been reduced to one-tenth of the normal pre-war diet.

The consequences of war did not end for the Dutch Saints with the closing of World War II – they faced additional months of near-starvation. Some of the first organized aid to reach them came from the Saints of the United States, who mailed parcels to the Saints throughout Europe as soon as the mail system was again operational and before larger-scale shipments could be made.

By the spring of 1947, the Dutch Saints were sufficiently organized, their most basic needs for food and shelter and clothing being met, that they could turn their minds and hands to producing food for themselves. The church’s Welfare Plan – so new that it had not yet been widely taught in Europe before the war – was presented to the Saints in Holland, and the people accepted the idea that by working together, they could produce a crop – potatoes, it was determined, would be best, along without whatever green vegetables could be added – that could be shared with all the Saints in Holland. Cooperative effort, they agreed, was better than a hundred scattered and individual projects.

Saints throughout the country found suitable parcels for raising crops. Parcels were generally small – backyards, strips of land along roadways and canals, larger plots on former farms that were not being worked due to a shortage of labor. When the Saints, both men and women, had prepared the soil, whole branches gathered for the planting: hymns were sung, prayers were offered for the safety and abundance of the crop, and the potatoes and beans and cabbages were planted.

And in was under those conditions, both of starvation and a keen awareness that “we are of one faith, and the gospel unites us all,” that the Dutch Saints learned that the Saints in Germany were living under even worse conditions than the Dutch themselves.

Mormon crops were flourishing all over Holland later that year when Walter Stover, president of the East German Mission, visited Holland and met with Dutch Mission President Cornelius Zappey. These men, and President J. Wunderlich of the West German Mission, as well as other leaders in the former war zones, had been in touch by letter and knew something of the hardships faced in each country. Hearing tales directly from President Stover, however, moved President Zappey beyond what letters had done.

President Zappey’s words:

If we – if we could only give our potatoes to the members of our Church in Germany. What a beautiful lesson could be learned from this; but what would they say if we should ask them for the food for which they had worked so hard to give to the people who had caused them such suffering and depredations – the people who had ruthlessly confiscated the last bit of their food and exposed their little children to starvation. And if they should approve of the idea, how would we be able to export the potatoes, for the exportation of food to Germany is strictly forbidden by the Dutch government, because the Dutch people doesn’t possess sufficient food for their own use.

Despite his apprehensions, both about the reaction of his Saints and the legal problems involved, he presented his idea. President Zappey again:

The result was startling. The Saints thought it a wonderful plan. The word “enemy” was not heard. The progress of the potato project was now watched with double interest and proudly came the reports, “We have so many potatoes for Germany,” and “We have so much.”

No one at home will ever realize, I think, the victory and the joy it has been for us. It will take about four railroad cars to transport all these potatoes. When I think of the suffering and the privations the people of Holland, as well as our Saints, suffered at the hands of the Germans, and how our Saints have labored long and diligently to raise all this food with only one goal in view – to send it to our Saints in Germany – I thank my Heavenly Father for the spirit of the welfare work at home and in this mission.

It was decided that the crop was so bountiful that each branch president would be allotted a share of the food to distribute to the widows and other especially needy people in their areas. Those branch presidents weren’t always successful. One widow, given a sack of potatoes, learned that her gift had come from the crop grown for the Saints in Germany. She returned her sack to the branch president, insisting “My potatoes must go with them.”

When it came time to ship the potatoes to Germany, an unexpected problem arose. Instead of the expected 15 tons of potatoes, for which President Zappey had obtained export permission, the Dutch Saints brought in a crop five times that size. With mingled joy and fear, he returned to the Agricultural Ministry … and the minister himself approved the increased export.

Immediately, trying to avoid the possibility of further obstacles, the Saints loaded 67 tons of sacked potatoes onto the trucks they had engaged, and those heavily laden trucks, in convoy, pulled away from the mission warehouse and headed east where, a few days later, they reached Presidents Stover and Wunderlich, and the Saints of Germany who faced another cold, hungry winter.

The Dutch Saints did it again in 1948. Only instead of 67 tons of potatoes, they grew 90 tons.

And even that wasn’t enough to satisfy their desire to help their German brothers and sisters.

While most of us today suffer from the too-easy availability of protein and fat, the opposite condition existed in much of Europe following the war. Meat was virtually non-existent, and fats of all kinds were in desperately short supply.

There wasn’t much the Dutch Saints could do to produce protein and fat in the odd lots and roadside strips they used to grow their vegetables, but there was one thing they could do. Even in the poverty of the post-war years, those Saints reached deep into their pockets and contributed what cash they found to a fund to buy herring for shipment to Germany. Herring was chosen especially for its high fat content, as well as its general abundance in the seas off the Dutch coast.

They bought nine tons of herring, enough barrels of fish to fill an entire train car. That fish and all those potatoes, in their bags and barrels, was loaded by missionary labor onto six train cars.

A few years later, the night of January 31-February 1, 1953, a strong northwest wind began to blow. The storm grew more and more severe and added its force to that of a high tide, raising the level of tidal surges to more than 18 feet above the mean level of the sea. In Holland, much of whose land was lower than sea level, having been claimed from the ocean by the building of dikes and the draining of seawater, the losses were catastrophic. Almost without warning – radio stations did not then broadcast at night – the sea rushed into and over Holland. Tens of thousands of animals died in the flood; thousands of buildings were destroyed, tens of thousands more flooded and damaged; and 1,835 human beings drowned. Reports describe the flood that night as the worst natural disaster to happen to Holland in the past 500 years.

Five days after the disaster, President Edwin Q. Cannon of the West German Mission sent a special delivery letter to every branch president in West Germany. He reminded the Saints of what the Dutch members had done for them immediately after the war. He recognized that the German Saints were still struggling with extreme poverty and had little to spare, but if – if – any German Saints had articles of clothing they wished to send to the Netherlands, the mission office would be pleased to receive that clothing and deliver it to the Dutch consulate in Frankfurt for shipping to the flood zone. No drives were to be conducted among the German members – no branch quotas established, no pressure placed upon anyone. It was to be a low-key, perfectly voluntary suggestion.

Several days later, the mission staff delivered five truckloads of such packages to the Dutch consulate to be sent to the Saints in Holland.

Some of the final words the Savior shared were these, during his last supper: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

“The best and most clear indicator that we are progressing spiritually and coming unto Christ is the way we treat other people.” – Marvin J. Ashton

A brilliant friend of mine wrote—So often we talk of the atonement as being a relationship between ourselves and God — To be at one with God. When we look at actual doctrine of eternal relationships, a different way to look at the atonement is seen. The atonement is a state of being as one with humanity before God. When we have reached a point of helping, aiding, and loving people, when we can truly love and aid all of God’s children without concern for their color, nationality, religion, addictions, or legal status. At that point, we are living the atonement of God.

I don’t think we achieve atonement .. If we are living as God would like us to, we LIVE the atonement. We become one with our community as we give of ourselves.

That statement gave me insight into the meaning of this teaching of Jesus:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungered, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

I will close with the Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi

Lord, make me an instrument of thy peace.

Where there is hatred, let me sow love;

Where there is injury, pardon;

Where there is doubt, faith;

Where there is despair, hope;

Where there is darkness, light;

Where there is sadness, joy.

O divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek

To be consoled as to console,

To be understood as to understand,

To be loved as to love;

For it is in giving that we receive;

It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;

It is in dying to self that we are born to eternal life.

[Anonymous]

Nice!

[Anonymous]

Beautiful.

Thank you for sharing with us.

[Author]

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