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All three parts of that advice apply. Slow down, certainly. Don’t dump all at once. Because you don’t believe some or all of the church/church teachings are true doesn’t mean there is no God or this is no Jesus. The gospel and the church are two separate and distinctive things, although they are tightly intertwined. You are only harming yourself by holding to an idea that they are one in the same.
Focus on what you do believe. Related to the above, just because you don’t believe in the Book of Mormon, for example, doesn’t mean you can’t (or don’t) believe in God. Look for the truths you do believe and focus on those. Connect the dots only where there are dots to connect – our God is also the God of the rest of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Mormons have no monopoly on him.
Hi Aegetis, Glad you are here! I am in a similar place as you although I have more of an “I just don’t know” type of approach and have come to the conclusion that I wish I could know, but I just don’t think its in the cards for me. And I’m good with that.
That being said, I still conduct myself in a way that I can answer “yes” to all the TR questions. I believe good clean living is paramount which includes principles such as being the best father and husband I can be, love for my fellow man/woman, service, sacrifice, hard work, spiritual progression, etc… (many of the good and great values conveyed in the church).
So in some sense I am pretending if you look at what I do and what I believe from a Mormon Orthodox perspective, but I am not pretending when it comes to my spiritual journey. I am very serious about it, which is why this site is so amazing. I have wrestled with what to do about giving a blessing as well, but have concluded that the blessing is not about my faith, it is about the faith of the receiver. And if I am living in a way that I feel spiritually at peace and at harmony with my family and fellow man, I have no reservations about being of service to others. On the flip side I would not give a blessing if I were acting in a way that would make me feel uncomfortable answering “yes” to the TR questions. For example, some on here have a looser interpretation of the Word of Wisdom
But you will have to decide what is right for you
Not sure if that helps.
SunbeltRed wrote:Hi Aegetis,
Glad you are here! I am in a similar place as you although I have more of an “I just don’t know” type of approach and have come to the conclusion that I wish I could know, but I just don’t think its in the cards for me. And I’m good with that.
That being said, I still conduct myself in a way that I can answer “yes” to all the TR questions. I believe good clean living is paramount which includes principles such as being the best father and husband I can be, love for my fellow man/woman, service, sacrifice, hard work, spiritual progression, etc… (many of the good and great values conveyed in the church).
So in some sense I am pretending if you look at what I do and what I believe from a Mormon Orthodox perspective, but I am not pretending when it comes to my spiritual journey. I am very serious about it, which is why this site is so amazing. I have wrestled with what to do about giving a blessing as well, but have concluded that the blessing is not about my faith, it is about the faith of the receiver. And if I am living in a way that I feel spiritually at peace and at harmony with my family and fellow man, I have no reservations about being of service to others. On the flip side I would not give a blessing if I were acting in a way that would make me feel uncomfortable answering “yes” to the TR questions. For example, some on here have a looser interpretation of the Word of Wisdom
But you will have to decide what is right for you
Not sure if that helps.
In regards to the TR questions, I do feel I would have an issue answering yes on questions the first few questions. DarkJedi posted this link in a previous thread and I thought it appropriate to paste here. The logic behind them is certainly helpful and may aid balancing my spirituality.
http://staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5534&p=75813&hilit=temple+recommend+questions#p75813 ” class=”bbcode_url”> http://staylds.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5534&p=75813&hilit=temple+recommend+questions#p75813 But I think love this :
Quote:the blessing is not about my faith, it is about the faith of the receiver.
Very helpful, thank you.
FWIW when I came here for the first time just less than a year ago, I had trouble with some of the TR questions, too. I am quite comfortable with my answers now, and in fact my current faith structure is in large part built around them. 1. Yes, I believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.
2. Yes, I do believe in Christ’s role as Savior and Redeemer
3. Yes, I have testimony of the restoration
4. Yes, I sustain (support) the president, Q15, and other GAs and local leaders of the church
5. Yes, I live the law of chastity
6. No, my family relationships are great
7. No, I don’t affiliate or believe those who oppose church teachings or practices
8. Yes, I do strive to keep my covenants and attend my meetings
9. Yes, I sure try to be honest
10. Yes, I pay a full tithe
11. Yes I live the WoW
12. Yes, I have not been married before and have no other financial obligations
13. Yes, I strive to keep my covenants and I wear the garment
14. No, no sins or misdeeds I believe need to be cleared up
15. Yes, I feel worthy to enter the temple
For each question, I likely do not believe exactly the same as the person asking the questions.
DarkJedi wrote:FWIW when I came here for the first time just less than a year ago, I had trouble with some of the TR questions, too. I am quite comfortable with my answers now, and in fact my current faith structure is in large part built around them.
1. Yes, I believe in God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost.
2. Yes, I do believe in Christ’s role as Savior and Redeemer
3. Yes, I have testimony of the restoration
4. Yes, I sustain (support) the president, Q15, and other GAs and local leaders of the church
5. Yes, I live the law of chastity
6. No, my family relationships are great
7. No, I don’t affiliate or believe those who oppose church teachings or practices
8. Yes, I do strive to keep my covenants and attend my meetings
9. Yes, I sure try to be honest
10. Yes, I pay a full tithe and yes I live the WoW
11. Yes, I have not been married before and have no other financial obligations
12. Yes, I strive to keep my covenants and I wear the garment
13. No, no sins or misdeeds I believe need to be cleared up
14. Yes, I feel worthy to enter the temple
For each question, I likely do not believe exactly the same as the person asking the questions.
# 7 – Is there an issue here with supporting LGBT causes? I read in a previous thread a bishop referring to the a Proclamation to the World.
I do support LGBT issues. I don’t see how the church can say they did not choose to be gay, yet deny them normal sexual expression. I apparently don’t read the family proclamation the same way some others do, and I don’t recognize it as scripture (although it certainly falls under the auspices teachings of the church). I suspect my views are not all that different from those of Elder Christofferson or Steve Young, but I keep my views to myself. Additionally, this question is squarely aimed at polygamist groups and is designed to keep polygamists out of the temple (if I were a polygamist, I’d just lie, of course). I don’t see this question as asking about LGBT issues or even OW for that matter. Generally speaking, and I don’t keep this to myself, the temple recommend questions are written with very precise language and are purposely vague/broad as to allow all who can benefit from the blessings of the temple to do so.
Welcome! Quote:# 7 – Is there an issue here with supporting LGBT causes?
For some leaders, yes; for the temple recommend question, absolutely not.
Had a private tour of the Cathedral of the Madeleine this afternoon while I was there on business. Was there for over an hour and I have to say, it was very inspiring. It’s a bit shocking to see the contrast of our temples vs cathedrals. Our tour guide was wonderful and her area of expertise was symbolism. I certainly felt the spirit today. For those of you or visiting Utah please go take a look. It’s open to the public.
Agaetis wrote:Had a private tour of the Cathedral of the Madeleine this afternoon while I was there on business. Was there for over an hour and I have to say, it was very inspiring. It’s a bit shocking to see the contrast of our temples vs cathedrals. Our tour guide was wonderful and her area of expertise was symbolism. I certainly felt the spirit today.
For those of you or visiting Utah please go take a look. It’s open to the public.
Cathedrals and temples have some different purposes from each other, but I do believe the Spirit experiences can be had in both. Mormons do not have a monopoly on the Spirit, nor should they.
Agaetis wrote:I feel I owe her this but I’m worried the deception will hurt her in the end. Thoughts?
I’m new to this site too (this is my first comment). I understand your feelings. My wife is a temple recommend holding member, loves and believes in the church. I on the other hand no longer hold a recommend (by choice), and no longer believe in the church as the only true church.
This is my experience with attending the church while not believing (not believing in the traditional sense).
When I first moved into my home my new Bishop came to welcome me and my family to the ward. For some reason he asked me to bear my testimony. I did. It went something like this. I no longer believe this is the only true church. I don’t believe the stories from the Old Testament and I don’t believe in the literal truth of The Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price. I went on to tell him what I do believe in, God, the spirit, people led by God etc. Anyway I’ve attended my new ward and participated from the beginning with no malice. The bishop even called me to teach primary (not sure what he was thinking) and when I teach stories that I don’t believe happened in the literal sense I teach them as stories with a moral to be learned. I don’t bear my testimony to the children about the truthfulness of the stories but the truthfulness of the concepts.
When my son turned eight he wanted me to baptize him. I did not want to do something that was not honorable but I also wanted that experience with my son, so I talked with my bishop and asked if I could since I had been given the priesthood and I was living according to the teachings of the church despite not believing “in the traditional sense.” Surprisingly he let me baptize my son but asked that the confirmation be done by someone else, who ended up being my brother.
I even give Father’s Blessings to my children, but I don’t think of them as “priesthood” blessings. I think of them just as they are, as Father’s Blessings.
I think you can attend and be true to yourself, your wife and the ward you attend. Ultimately the church is here to help us achieve a fullness of joy, interpret that how you will. I think you can still participate without having a traditional belief. I’m still an American even though I don’t agree with everything going on here but I’m not about to change my citizenship. The same goes for the church.
I just had some things happen over the past few weeks that I’m a bit surprised with. One was I didn’t wear my garments at times when I normally would. It’s been super hot outside and we had some family photos taken by some friends. I wore some nice clothes with a suit coat and the temperature that day was 100 degrees. I chose to forgo them. Another instance was when I got home from work and had a few things to do around the house, wash the car, clean up the yard and garage. Again, it was hot but I would normally wear my garments. It totally felt liberating! But – I somehow felt I was going to a place a couldn’t come back from. I wasn’t expecting to feel guilt but I did. It was interesting to think about it in the terms of being brainwashed. I truly don’t believe my salvation is dependent upon garments but the lack of them definitely made me reevaluate. The second instance was in the form of a priesthood blessing. My two year old son was sick with the flu for a few days and my wife asked me if I was comfortable giving him a priesthood blessing. I told her I wasn’t, but that we could pray for him together. She was fine with that and we did. To be honest, all during his illness I wanted to give him a priesthood blessing. I just don’t believe that I have extra keys from god to heal him. If the priesthood truly worked like that, why isn’t the cancer survival rate in Utah noticeable higher that the national average? Or sickness rates significantly lower among the LDS? I believe anyone has the power to comfort a child or individual who’s accepting of it, but not to heal based on the religion of the giver.
I feel like I’m lying to myself of I’ve been brainwashed. This isn’t going to be as easy as I’d hoped.
ScotDean wrote a really good comment (first comment that needs approval) that got missed somehow. I just approved it and want to mention it, since it might get overlooked by anyone who checks this thread. Quote:I’m still an American even though I don’t agree with everything going on here but I’m not about to change my citizenship. The same goes for the church.
– Thanks ScotDean. Love this anology. Welcome!
So I sat in Sunday School yesterday listening to the lesson and the teacher asked a question: what are some modern day commandments? People began to say things like, piercings, tattoos, food store, and so forth. This had me thinking… so the prophet enter into the Holy of Holies and walks out with “girls should only have one earring in each ear.” This seems like the God of Lost Keys testimony I hear every FS. Why is God finding your keys but didn’t save the life of my nephew after I prayed for his safety? Here’s the thing. The story is JS directly translate the Book of Abraham from papyri using the power of God. Then the church used the PR department to announce that, nope, both church and non-church Egyptologists agree it’s not a true translation. Where is the prophet in all this? Why didn’t he author that essay saying he’s brought the matter before the lord and here is what the lord spoke? Then we add it to D&C right? Why is he asking the lord about women’s jewelry and not about our core doctrine of belief?
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