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Although your post seems to imply closure to this thread, I wanted to make an additional comment. It dawned on me that authenticity can be “silent”. The fact that people don’t see me at church as much is authentic. Whenever the leaders ask me to take on leadership positions, and I have a reason for not doing it right now, that is authentic. Your life’s work is authentic — where you put your time…you don’t have to express it verbally for it to be authentic. university, I’m glad you posted again on this thread. I wasn’t on the site much when this was being discussed before, so I missed the thread initially. I just want to tell you that there are many people here who have experienced elements of what you are talking about. You said, “I’m trapped in a box that keeps getting smaller”. I have felt that same way before, and I used to use the term ‘trapped’ a lot. You said, “I don’t want to disappoint everyone”. I get that too. I will tell you that that is a dangerous element of your struggle. It’s why you feel trapped. You need to find a way to let that go. I’m not saying it’s easy or that there is an obvious way to do that, but holding yourself hostage over the reactions of other people will continue to spiral inward on itself if not checked.
My advice is to see a counselor, if you haven’t already. In Utah, it will be harder to find the right one. There isn’t a single person living in Utah that doesn’t know quite a bit about the Church, and that may be a hindrance. Don’t worry if the first few you try don’t work for you. I didn’t hit on the right counselor until attempt #3.
Another piece of advice I can give is figure out for yourself what you believe or at least what lifestyle you subscribe to. If you go to your loved ones with open questions, it will be unsettling. If, instead, you can go with “I’m on a new path, but it’s a lot like the old path”, it will help instill a mutual trust/support kind of relationship. In other words, don’t let yourself be defined (either by you or by someone else) by what you don’t believe, let yourself be defined by who you ARE. That will make the transition much better.
As long as I’m on the advice-giving line, let me tell you one thing that has worked exceptionally well for me. Your mileage may vary, depending on you and your circumstances, of course. I never talk about ‘why’. I’m not really interested in validation. I don’t need to justify my beliefs. There is something about faith crisis regarding the LDS faith that leaves the disaffected with an almost pathological need to explain themselves. I have felt that strong urge myself, but I have been able to steer around it. I just tell people that I no longer believe and then I move on to the here and now. That has helped because I don’t put people either on the defensive or into problem-solving mode. If I were to explain to someone about the BofA, for example, it would become a dispute with no resolution. Instead, I tell them I’m no longer a believer, but that I support them and their faith and I try to be a good person and I hope we can still have the same relationship as ever. When asked ‘why’ directly, I explain as politely as I can that I don’t want to talk about specifics and I move on.
I dreaded telling my children and my parents as the inevitable temple marriage date approached. Talk about a box getting smaller. I suffered from terrible depression. But when I finally sat down with each one of them I received only love from them; not condemnation.
Finally, let me just say that the worst is not in front of you, it is behind you. There will be hurdles and rough seas ahead, but IMO, being open about no longer believing is the first step to finding peace, and the second is like unto it: be openly accepting of the beliefs of others, even those who stay fully in the Church.
I hope for the best for you.
Hey University, I’m rob4hope,..I live in SLC, Utah,…the heartland. (YIKES!).
Your life will not end if you leave. Truth be told, as you live more authentic, you might be surprised at the relationships that will change with you. Some folks might leave you, thinking you are some hedonistic apostate. Others will respect you, and will respect your authenticity as well.
There is good news on the end of this one though,…and that is some of the best and most precious friendships are in your future.
I’ve learned in my own journey that as I have struggled to become my authentic self, I have actually become more influential and grounded (as in having my feet more securely under me) in life.
Your faith is changing, developing, becoming who you are. There is nothing wrong with that. Now, in my case, I am not just out of the church,…I am OUT of the church. But, I have a choice: I can stay out, I can move back in,…or (and this is what is happening) I can choose to redefine what is right for me and how that “back in” may or may not happen, but according to my choice.
Having a choice is not a bad thing.
Now, being in Utah, I can understand the social stigma you are facing. My previous ward?…I could walk the perimeter of the 500 family ward boundary in about 15 min–NO KIDDING. So, if you are like me, you are surrounded by LDS people: your social group is LDS, your family is LDS, your friends are LDS,…heck man,..even your enemies are LDS!
You don’t need to advertise to everyone: “HEY,…I;M LEAVING!” You don’t have to justify your choice. And,..just because you might be leaving for a time now, doesn’t mean you are closing the door on coming back, or if you are like me, redefine what you will be doing in YOUR future.
You have friends here to.
Maybe some thoughts in this post I wrote will be useful: http://www.wheatandtares.org/17371/authenticity-will-the-real-me-please-stand-up/ A few more things: Thanks for the recommendations for the Mormon Matters podcats with Dan. I haven’t had the chance to check him out yet but I will.
And thanks for the link to your post, Hawkgrrrl.
I think what’s a struggle with me with fearing rejection is that A:) I’m young and I think as I mature these things won’t matter as much anymore and B:) I’m the workaholic type and admittedly a bit closed off. I’m a strange little extrovert. I don’t even know if I buy the introvert/extrovert paradigm, actually. In formal or academic situations I’m in my element and very outgoing. I’m also friendly and caring. I enjoy public speaking, hanging out with people when we discuss “the serious stuff”, etc. And yet in casual settings, I’m closed off. Put me in the traditional college setting–a football game or a party–and I’m the big introvert. I hate big groups. I get shy and insecure in those settings. The point of this is, I have very few friends. I know a lot of people say that but I mean it. I don’t think acquaintances would guess this about me because I apparently have that “she-has-everything-so-put-together” vibe going on.
Anyway, usually when I do make a friend it means I go deep. Problem is, I have more to lose if things go south. I think it makes the authenticity thing hard because I want to be appreciated for who I am not in spite of who I am. I don’t have to throw my opinions all over people but the thing about my personality is…I’m really into “intellectual” topics. It’s part of how I relate to people. For example, when I talk about politics, social norms, etc., that’s when my sense of humor comes out. So, when I’m with friends, and I have to filter out half of the things I like to talk about…I’m left feeling kind of unfufilled, you know? Couple that with all the anxieties and frustrations with potential rejection it’s not good. Recently I’ve been feeling frustrated with some of my friendships and even thinking to myself, “What do we have in common? I can’t be myself with this person…I love this person, but maybe I should phase this relationship out.” Problem is…if that friendship ends, that leaves how many “friends” who are left?
Anyway, after I graduate I’m moving away and I think that will be a great thing and do wonders for my ability to feel free to be myself. I think it will be good for me sorting through my spiritual/religions beliefs, as well.
Also: I am seeing a therapist and have been for a while. She’s LDS but very supportive. No pressures whatsoever from her
Again, thanks for all the comments.
I like your personality. There are many positives about being that “kind” of personality. You may want to search our archives for discussions we’ve had on Myers-Briggs personality scores. It is interesting to see how different people exhibit different natural tendencies, and I think we can work on some things we want to enhance or diminish, but by the time we’re adults, we have a general tendency about ourselves. Being aware is helpful, but embracing differences is a mature way to accept you as you are, even if others go crazy at BYU football games and you would rather talk about deep thoughts. We just learn to recognize cues from others if they enjoy what we enjoy, or if they don’t and we filter our thoughts accordingly, and our best friends are ones that we trust to be open and ourselves to completely (yes…with risk of what that means when it goes south).
Anyway, just some random thoughts of mine…I appreciate your posts.
university wrote:In formal or academic situations I’m in my element and very outgoing. I’m also friendly and caring. I enjoy public speaking, hanging out with people when we discuss “the serious stuff”, etc.
You are perfect just the way you are.
university wrote:
And yet in casual settings, I’m closed off. Put me in the traditional college setting–a football game or a party–and I’m the big introvert. I hate big groups. I get shy and insecure in those settings.Nothing wrong with that in the least. You don’t like that stuff…so don’t do it. I’m a guy, and frankly, I hate watching sports events. How ‘un-guy’ is that?….duh! I don’t care. There isn’t nothing wrong with me because I feel that way. Actually, I love being different. I really do.
university wrote:
Anyway, usually when I do make a friend it means I go deep.
This is a beautiful quality. WOW! Don’t ever feel bad or apologize for this.
university wrote:
Problem is, I have more to lose if things go south. I think it makes the authenticity thing hard because I want to be appreciated for who I am not in spite of who I am.
In order to go deep, yo have to become vulnerable. Oh,…you are making VERY GOOD sense here. There is always a risk to go deep into relationships. Do you know how many people can’t even make the attempt?
You are perfect,…just perfect. Don’t change a thing. WOW.
university wrote:
I don’t have to throw my opinions all over people but the thing about my personality is…I’m really into “intellectual” topics. It’s part of how I relate to people.
There are people out there just like you, who need you, and who want to be with and close to you. Again,…don’t change. Accept this as what it is…a gift.
university wrote:
Recently I’ve been feeling frustrated with some of my friendships and even thinking to myself, “What do we have in common? I can’t be myself with this person…I love this person, but maybe I should phase this relationship out.” Problem is…if that friendship ends, that leaves how many “friends” who are left?
Some of my friendships are a big royal pain in the ass. Wish I didn’t have them, want to get out of them, and the deserve less than a gentle “phasing them out” approach.
There are friends (as in just friends), and then there are confidants who are more than friends–people who you resonate and love. There is nothing wrong with you shuffling your friends around and finding those that are worthy of more closeness. The good news?…you got a lifetime to meet people, and from what you have said, I have strong confidence that the best friendships you will ever have are in your future. Oh WOW!…what yummy things to look forward to!
University, there is nothing wrong with you. I’ve read many of your posts. You are EXTREMELY intelligent, and eloquent in your writing and persuasional abilities. Don’t feel weak because you may not like certain things, or feel comfortable in certain areas. That isn’t your thing. You are perfect just the way you are. And, I for one, see that. WOW….some people get everything…brains, talent, personality, tenderness?…dang.
university wrote:I’m really into “intellectual” topics. It’s part of how I relate to people. For example, when I talk about politics, social norms, etc., that’s when my sense of humor comes out. So, when I’m with friends, and I have to filter out half of the things I like to talk about…I’m left feeling kind of unfulfilled, you know? Couple that with all the anxieties and frustrations with potential rejection it’s not good.
Hey university, that’s a great summation and one I can relate with… it resonates with me… (I went back to search my posts and realized that I had only said ‘resonates’ three times, so I’m trying to raise its use in my vocabulary. Now I’ve said ‘resonates’ four times. No, wait, now I’ve said ‘resonates’ five times. Wait… AAARGH!)Anyway, I’m like you in that I like to have intellectual discussions. I’ve actually found a way to make these much more fulfilling, which I want to share with you. It might not work for you, but it works for me. I try to bring empathy to the conversation. This allows me to have an intellectual conversation even with people who don’t agree with my views. Just as importantly, it allows me to have friendships across ideological lines.
I’ve noticed over the years, and it seems to be increasing, that when people want to talk about religion, politics, social norms, or whatever, that they have a strong tendency to speak in a declarative way. They aren’t really having dialog as much as an exposition of their beliefs. People, nearly always as far as I can tell, think of their views as the correct views and alternate views as uninformed. Suppose you and I are talking about the legalization of recreational drugs. If we are in agreement, we both feel so smart and can resonate off of each other (dang, I’ve lost count). If we don’t agree, then I have two choices: stifle my remarks or move into convincing mode. If it’s the former, our connection is interrupted. If it’s the latter, you will feel defensive and I will either feel frustrated or victorious, depending on the outcome. None of these choices are going to raise our friendship to new levels.
But I have found that my most rewarding intellectual conversations have precisely involved people with whom I disagree. Empathy, in this case, is the ability to understand someone else from their perspective, not from ours. I have had terrific, enlightening, gratifying and friendship-building conversations about religion and faith with believers, even though I am not one and the other people know it. I recently had a dialog about same-sex marriage with a person I would consider to be a hardliner, but what made it work so well is that he is articulate, thoughtful, empathetic. We could each talk and seek understanding from each other without anything close to the need to prevail in the discussion. Neither of us used the I-am-right approach. Here’s the key outcome: my views didn’t change, but my understanding was increased; and that should be the point of an intellectual dialog.
FWIW, I think this is a major reason why I can be at-peace with the LDS Church. I try to have empathy and I hope to receive it from others. I’ve never been rejected for trying to understand others. Of course, my attempts to understand sometimes go without reciprocity. So be it. If I make the attempt and don’t receive in kind, I live to try another day.
Thank you all so much for these responses. They really made me smile and helped lighten the load a little bit For the record…I’m an ENJF. Although some days I feel more like an INFJ. Maybe I’ll post in that thread sometime
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