- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
Hello all. I won’t bore you with too many details, but I will try to give some detail.
I was born and raised in the Church, went on a mission to Venezuela, returned and received a BS in Geology at BYU – Idaho, a MS in Geology at the University of Wyoming and I am currently pursuing a PhD in Geology at the University of Wyoming (But this may change to the University of Arizona soon)
I am married and have two children.
My crisis of faith hit hard about 3 years ago and I have been going through the stages familiar to most.
I have participated actively over at the New Order Mormon site for quite some time, but I am feeling distant from that site at times.
Right now I am past being too worried about absolute Truth.
I participate in the Church for my spouse, but participation is painful at times.
The most painful part is that I am trying to participate in an organization that sometimes tells me that I should not participate in it.
Ironically after a weekend trip to Las Vegas, I had some really good conversations with some friends of mine (with whom I frequently discussed heavy church issues) and I admired their maturity. They seemed to be very comfortable just saying that I do not agree with __________ doctrine and it does not bother me that people tell me that I should. I am searching for a maturity level that allows me to participate without carring that others don’t want me to, or that they feel threatened by my presence.
I believe in very little within the church and am not even sure if I believe in God, but it is part of my heritage and it is an important part of my spouses life. I recognize good in the church in that it is a myth framework that is extremely effective for many, and what else can you expect from a church?
Welcome here, Shadow! I guess you are considering being LDS for life. Like you, I admire those who are comfortable with their status. Something tells me they have always been more comfortable than we are. They have always been free-thinkers. On the contrary, you might say that many of us perhaps persisted in James Fowler’s stage 2, Mythic-Literal faith rather belatedly.
The church seems largely oriented toward Mythic-literal (stage 2) faith, with a tacit acceptance of synthetic-conventional (stage 3) faith. That makes it feel quite comfortable for some of us to perhaps persist with many traits of mythic-literal faith into our adult years. Those who leave behind mythic-literal faith in their teens and experiment with individuative-reflective faith in their late teens feel much more accustomed to being odd ducks and have learned not to make waves.
Personally, I’m still concerned about the insensitivities, negatives, and betrayal of teaching myths as literal. I suppose time will show me a way to solve that lovingly.
Tom
Quote:Personally, I’m still concerned about the insensitivities, negatives, and betrayal of teaching myths as literal. I suppose time will show me a way to solve that lovingly.
As am I, but I find more and more non-literalists in the church, and I feel like it is worthwhile to find a voice as a non-literalist.
I find incredible meaning in the Adam and Eve myth, even as a non-theist. However, I need to find away to enjoy church on an intellectual level. It is hard to do when my comments are consistently seen as threatening, or when people respond to me as if I need to be “fixed”.
Having said that, sometimes, just sometimes, if I put enough effort into framing my comment in a very political fashion, the comment is appreciated by a few people. These moments are few and far between, but when they happen, it is rewarding.
Hi Shadow, I always liked your comments over at NOM, and am glad to have you here in our community too. It seems like you spend a lot of time really thinking things through, and I appreciate your ability to be sensitive to the faith of others, as much as possible.
There are more non-literalists at Church than we might expect. I’ve had good opportunities in the past year to really talk about things with people in my old ward, and even former missionary companions, and I find many people don’t buy everything. I am not saying these people were quite as far out in the fringe as me, but they actually expressed great appreciation being able to talk to me about the topics we did.
I think the LDS Church is a pretty good organization. It’s a good and functional Church. I just left a really great ward that was compassionate and full of decent and caring people. My new ward shows a lot of promise (only been once, we just moved here).
Anyway, you can always express your thoughts and ideas about metaphor and symbol here. We maintain a positive outlook, or at least try hard to get there. It’s ok if other people at Church see things very literal and black/white. They are just different than us. Most are doing the best they can right now.
Have you ever read “The Power of Myth” by Joseph Campbell? I really enjoyed his arguments for the value of myth in religion and society.
Welcome Shadow! It sounds like you’ve “been on the trail” for a while, and are forging your own way. Congratulations! I appreciate the thoughts that you’ve shared thus far, I’ve experienced similar feelings. For me, I’ve found it helpful to look at those (thankfully few) people who feel threatened by “different ideas” as individuals IN the church, but not representative OF the church. When I look at statements from Elder Wirthlin and others that are inviting to everyone, as well as the teachings of tolerance, forgiveness, and charity – I realize that my place is in fact in the church. Honestly, I see my goals and values aligning very closely to the ideals of the church – at least all the ideals that stand out to me personally! When my crisis was fresh it was difficult to see that, but time and focus helps a lot.
I also second the recommendation of “The Power of Myth.” I was reading in it the other day and I find his views/advice simply timeless. What he says on marriage for example could benefit every human that is willing to take it to heart. Campbell takes the “two becoming one flesh” statement as not really dealing with flesh at all. He says the biological function of creating children is not the heart of marriage. Marriage is a relationship: “When you make the sacrifice in marriage, you’re sacrificing not to each other” but to the unity of the relationship. You are no longer an “I”, that is not your identity when you’re married. Yes, you need to be a healthy individual or you degrade the union – which is your being. You cannot worry about every little thing your spouse puts into the union (in a sense) or you end up tearing it down through your concern. Anyway, a lot of good stuff. I’m a fan. Obviously he has great ideas on how to be a whole person spiritually – and what that is.
Again welcome! I hope you enjoy your time here!
Brian Johnston wrote:
Have you ever read “The Power of Myth” by Joseph Campbell? I really enjoyed his arguments for the value of myth in religion and society.Thanks for all of the welcomes.
I read “The Power of Myth” when I was about 18-19, but to tell you the truth, I was not at the emotional or intellectual maturity to appreciate it’s nuances.
I own it, and I plan on revisiting it shortly.
I am currently working my way through “The Case for God” by Karen Armstrong. I am enjoying it quite a bit, but I think that the title is a bit misleading. I would say that she is fairly Campbellesque.
I look forward to participating.
Welcome, shadow!! Glad you found us, can’t wait to hear more from you!
Welcome, Shadow! I’m a bit like you, hanging in their with the church because I love my wife and wonder if the myth is a good thing for my kids … but I’m trying to figure out how much of a wave to make, or if to make one at all. It’s good to have you here.
Fwiw, it’s possible to be very intellectual about the Church and the Gospel and still be at peace with both. The key to it, imho, is to leave behind the black and white mentality and learn to craft your own nuanced views and perspectives – and to own them while being willing to change them as new information finds you. Welcome! I’m also pretty new member of this forum and find it a great place to share experiences and ideas. Thanks to all! Welcome to our forum. You may want to check out the thread on Official Doctrine under the “History and Doctrine Discussions” section. There is no set of dogma which you must accept. And I believe there is a lot more flexibility than is commonly assumed in what we do believe. At any rate, feel welcome to express your feelings here.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.