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what would you consider an abuse of power by leaders in the church When someone is wavering on a calling, being told that if they don’t take it, the only thing left is the nursery? (my husband told them to put him in the nursery after that comment)
Being called back in about the same calling, but speaking to the member in the clerks office, with the clerk sitting in the room, the hallway door open, and talking loud enough to be heard out in the hall?
This happened to my husband, when he was already struggling, they wanted him to teach a sunday school class–he asked if I could team teach with him, which I was willing to do—He was never told that “no, we don’t want you to teach with your wife.”—he just never heard back from anyone. a couple weeks later they put another couple in to teach the sunday school class.
My husband pretty much went over the edge after that–he comes to sacrament meeting, in a separate car, and then leaves. He doesn’t want to read scriptures with us at home, we have family prayer if I remember to call the kids for it—he usually will join us–but I don’t always get it done.
I asked the bishop why they wouldn’t let us team teach together–he said he didn’t know–he would have to ask the counselor who interviewed my husband. I asked the bishop again at a later time and was told that bro. so-and-so thought my husband would make me do all the work—-nobody ever asked me how I felt. When my husband found out this was the reason, he said,”based on what?” we have been in this ward 5 years. My husband team taught primary with another brother and he did his job faithfully and taught the lesson every other week. He was given a new partner, who was not reliable and would often not show up—sometimes I didn’t go to my meetings because I went to primary with my husband because he couldn’t be alone with the children–or they had to leave the door open. He taught his lessons faithfully–and taught extra lessons when his partner didn’t show. He was put into young mens and went on many campouts and took his turn regularly teaching the lesson to the young men and was at mutual every week.
I can’t imagine why this counselor would place a judgement on my husband like he did when my husband had an excellent record for teaching his lessons—I’m the lousy teacher, music is my thing. I feel so bad about how all this was handled–and I have a hard time believing that there was really “prayer and inspiration” used in this decision—-especially since the bishop didn’t even know why the decision was made—I thought the bishopric discussed callings—I would especially think that they would discuss a calling being given to a man who was already teetering with activity in the church—and would have been willing to do the job if the would have let me team teach with him. It would have kept my husband studying and maybe given us the chance to study together.
I told the bishop that I thought the nursery comment and interviewing my husband in a public place were both inappropriate—my husband said it really didn’t bother him—-but he sure told me about the nursery comment. I was walking down the hall and heard part of the other interview. My husband says that the counselor isn’t as friendly to him as he used to be–he blames me for telling the bishop.
What makes me feel the worst—is that no one seems to care that my husband is just slipping away–no one is trying to really reach out to him and fellowship him back. I sit and listen to the times that they say they want everyone to bring someone to church on a certain date—and I think, “you don’t even hang on to the members you already have.”
Whatever happened to leaving the 99 and going after the one? The heavens rejoice more over one who has strayed and returned than they do over the 99 that never left—-I think it is because it usually means that someone had to reach out and fellowship and love the “one” back—I think that is what Christ intended for us to do.
I feel guilty for being so weak while my husband is struggling–I don’t want to go to church without him, I’m upset that no one seems to care about him and i am not just going ahad and seeing that I have scripture study and prayers and FHE with the kids—I’m just letting myself slide down with him—-and I don’t want to feel this way or be this way.
I think the behaviour is inapproriate. I do doubt it was nefarious and designed to hurt your husband. I approach life in general that everyone else is an idiot….oh yeah…and I am an idiot too.
So…when dealing with idiots you need to be a bit forgiving…sometimes you need to explain basic concepts to them…and then don’t be upset if they don’t get it.
never let church leaders hurt your feelings. Never let them guilt you into or out of a calling. Do what you feel is right…only know what you can and can’t do…they will never understand better than you….and it is up to you to decide if you should be stretching a bit more
I don’t have an answer for you mom. I just want to offer my empathy. I’m so sorry you are going through this in your ward. I agree with the others who have responded. I am so sorry you and your husband are going through this. The example you shared is inexcusable. However, to answer your questions about abuse of power, I wouldn’t classify it in that way. I would classify it as pigheaded, inappropriate, jerky, or just about any other adjective that means “idiotic” – but I wouldn’t call it abuse. I tend to reserve that word for cases where extreme pressure was applied, and I see the pressure applied in this case as moderate – stupid, inexcusable, inappropriate, jerky, etc. but not extreme.
Having said that, again, I am sorry you experienced this. It ought not be but too often is.
Mom to 11- I too am sorry and completely empathetic to the pain you and your husband our feeling. I also agree with Ray and others that this is unseemly, unchristian, and many things “un”. I also know that it is human nature. Poor human nature but human nature none the less. The part that makes it hardest is that church would a place you could be free from it or at least so blatantly. And it can really rip your heart. I have also come to the conclusion that the idiot being the idiot maybe so blind they have no idea they are inflicting pain. I don’t mean that to excuse them but I know in my life history I have been a jerk to people and not known it. I usually figure it out when I’ve had something hurt me – then I see how my actions and arrogances (that I thought were leadership) were really destructive behavior to a person.
A book that has helped me learn to understand these traits is Anatomy of Peace. Through multiple readings I have learned to see my blindnesses and my hurts in a new light.
I hope you can find a place to heal your hurt and heart. I know for my grandfather it took upwards of 40 years to heal from the hurt of a thoughtless, overzealous bishopric member. But I also attest that healing will come. Good luck. I’ll be praying for both of you.
I sometimes wonder though… Yes we need to be forgiving of idiots… But shouldn’t we sometimes point out that people are being idiots. Why does the idiot always get the free reign and the rest have to tolerate their idiocy.
I think this was one of the things that used to bug my wife. Having people behave like idiots and everyone just tiptoe round them.
In other words momto11… I think your leaders sound like idiots and I’m sorry you have to put up with them. Now where did I hide my charity…
Quote:shouldn’t we sometimes point out that people are being idiots
Yes, aboslutely– sometimes, attempting to do so in the right way, owning the results of rolling around in the mud with pigs if we choose to do so, etc. I can’t blame an idiot for reacting idiotically if I challenge his idiocy. Just saying.
One of my favorite statements is:
Quote:We all have blind spots. The problem is that we are blind to them.
I had a woman tell me I was an idiot. The entire mess landed all of us in the Bishop’s office. It got kind of ugly. I think that’s why tip toeing happens. If I squeal or correct someone – I’m the one considered in the wrong – especially when it’s a leader. We have this superiority/ranking system, that covers for the “good” guy and discards the “bad” guy. I’ve seen it high councils, in Bishoprics, in wards (with who is in or considered in). It is another massive human failing. So it’s not so much tip toeing as deciding what course you want to take. If the relationship is failing anyway whats the point.
In my case I had been arrogant. The woman who had a gripe was right. I didn’t do anything blatantly wrong – like steal or hit, but I said somethings with an attitude that cut some people deep. But popularity was on my side. I was the Young Woman President and beloved. My image and calling I sort of out ranked her. Her comments were seen as undermining and so on. In the court of LDS appeal I was acquitted and sanctified. I really believed those judgements were true and that she was a woman with a jealous gripe. Then one day when the incident was far gone I witnessed another similar event – and suddenly as an outside observer I realized I had been just what she saw. Maybe I hadn’t meant it, maybe she was overly sensitive – or maybe I was a jerk and idiot.
I don’t to this day, know how many people I have done similar things to over the years. I imagine more than I would like to count. I can be very zealous when I have a cause I believe in. I can be very animated, dramatic and effective. In those heady moments I am so self focused it’s amazing. And if people like my energy and presentation they grant me miles of forgiveness – even are blind to my errors. They are on my side and it really helps in a war of hurt hearts. I’ve been there I know.
So we get to choose and yes, if a conversation of healing can be had, do it. Because it really can help. I’ve seen a couple of them and they are magical. That said – it’s usually hard to not be hurt or blamed and that makes it worse.
That comment is an example of why I am SOglad mom3 participates here. Stunning.
Thank you.
Thank you mom3. I feel humbled and gratefuly to be taught. I’ll get off my high horse and walk with the rest of them 
Old-Timer wrote:shouldn’t we sometimes point out that people are being idiots
Yes, aboslutely– sometimes, attempting to do so in the right way, owning the results of rolling around in the mud with pigs if we choose to do so, etc. I can’t blame an idiot for reacting idiotically if I challenge his idiocy. Just saying.
One of my favorite statements is:
Quote:We all have blind spots. The problem is that we are blind to them.
Ray,
I do believe we can and probably should point out idiocy to the idots…that why I said:
“So…when dealing with idiots you need to be a bit forgiving…sometimes you need to explain basic concepts to them…and then don’t be upset if they don’t get it.”
By definition of being an idiot…there is a good chance they are not going to get it….so we can shout “You Idiot!” But now you just have a smug and/or angry idiot.
Sometimes you can reprove with sharpness and then show increasing love afterwords and have success…it works with a lot of idiots
Just remember this one thing though…there is no easy answer
I heard this somewhere: “just when you think you have idiot proofed a process, some jackass goes ahead and invents a better idiot!”
thank you so much for your support–I also don’t think the counselor was purposely trying to be unkind–but i almost get the feeling that he doesn’t have a high opinion of my husband when he made the judgement about how my husband would handle team teaching with me—when all he had was a good track record. This ward has been so hard to try and feel like I belong in–and I grew up in this ward!! Early on, when my husband was coming to church all the time, he made it a point to try and introduce himself to new people because it had been so difficult for us when we moved in.
The counselor is a counselor, by profession–so I would think he would be a better people person. He is the kind, that when extending a calling, that you can sit and explain your situation to, while he looks at you and smiles the whole time, and then he will look at you and say “so will you accept it?”—as if he didn’t hear a single word you just said!! When I told my mother about this she laughed and said she could see that when she thought about him —she was in this ward for over 30 years.
i used to be the assistant 11yr old scout leader. I worked with the same gal for 2 or 3 years. She was released and a new leader was put in—who had waaaay more energy than I do—I have some ongoing health issues. I loved the scouting, but i knew i could not keep up with this woman and i was having a little more trouble with my health. My husband told a member of the bishopric that i needed to be released because of health problems. This same counselor asked me to visit with him. Instead of officially telling me they were going to release me, he asked me how my scout calling was going!!!!!! He already knew my health had become a problem, because my husband, the priesthood leader in our home, had told them i needed to be released. I can’t figure out why he felt the need to ask me how it was going—did he doubt my husband? did he think my husband just wanted me released and that maybe I really didn’t have health problems? It is just weird when i think about it—and it isn’t a conversation I should have had to have
I shouldn’t have had to explain to this man what he already knew. Possibly I am overly sensitive about that issue because of everything else and I could be seeing weirdness where there isn’t any—and the counselor really is a nice guy–he was a year ahead of me in school.I am supposed to see the bishop tonight in just a little over two hours. I feel like I need to tell him how bad I am feeling about the way things have been handled with my husband, and I feel like I need to point out that the judgement about my husband and teaching sunday school was way off base and point out my husbands record of dedication in the past. I also know that I need to try and be very humble when I talk to him and try and keep my anger under wraps.
I am battling between feeling bad and being angry and being disappointed, and probably a bunch of other things. I think our bishop is a kind man– but I also think we have had so many issues that he really doesn’t know how to deal with us. I think he tries. I don’t think he realizes that when he greets my husband with the exact same words every week, “hello bro. XXX how is your job going.”, that it starts to sound very insincere–but, I still think he is trying—I sure wouldn’t want to be bishop.
Sometimes, I think you need to tell people when things have really hurt you or those you love, because even if they can’t fis or change things—-maybe it will help them be a little wiser with the next person they deal with.
Now, if you all could just send some prayers our way–that i will be humble with the bishop, that my flagging testimony will be revived, and that my husband will have a desire to return to church.
Prayers are on their way. Sincerely – May you feel God’s hand in yours tonight – and in the days to come. Ray – Thank you. Your compliment made my day. I always love your insights and having you see my posts as helpful just made me soar. Thanks.
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