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Dear All: I have been feeling recently that LDS culture has entered a time in which all members are supposed to be high achieving, beautiful, amazing people whose only “oddity” is being a member of the LDS church. YM should play football or basketball. YW should have wonderful voices and play at least 2 instruments well. Cheerleading, dance squad, and band are encouraged. Like Lake Wobegon, “All the men are good looking, the women are strong, and the children are above average.”
This really hit home a few years ago. Our RS president would talk about families moving into the ward. She described them as “good families” and “bad families”. Good families were married, dad worked, mom stayed home. They had at least 3 kids. Problem families were any household that didn’t meet that criteria.
In childhood, my memories are of people being a little more accepting of differences. But maybe that was just being young and less aware. Is the church culture becoming even more image conscious of its members?
Anyone have an opinion?
I think it will vary from Ward to Ward. In one Ward, when we were childless and could not conceive, the women considered my wife a leper of sorts because she worked and did not have children. In yet another Ward I served in, on my mission, there was massive arrogance toward anyone who was not of the same, high economic status. In yet another Ward, the culture was one of emotionless achievement. I kind of liked it, actually — people did their job, but there were no close friendships or sharing of deep personal issues. It was professional and very executive, but kind, and Christlike. In this Ward, there was no judgment at all. Although I was not of the same socioeconomic status as most of the people in the Ward, they accepted me as a Bishopric member, did what I asked, and supported me. Overall, it was a great experience.
So, I think this may be specific to your Ward.
When I’m honest, I have to say that our ward right now is pretty accepting. There are some cool kids, the beautiful people, and ward movers and shakers, but it’s not out of hand. I think the church is becoming more image-obsessed, though, along with the rest of the world. Back in the day, we just went to activities and experienced them, instead of taking pictures for Facebook.
I wonder if the competitiveness gets worse deeper into the MorCor.
I feel that there are markers of religiousity that help earn you belonging in the LDS church. The fewer of these markers that one has the lower the acceptance and the higher to probability of being negatively judged.
Quote:all members are supposed to be high achieving, beautiful, amazing people
I grew up in a ward like that, it was refiners fire to move through and not everyone made it. We had gorgeous, talented, impressive, bright, powerful people galore. It was a fight to keep up and I believe we lost quite a few people along the way. The ward made that change on it’s own, it wasn’t a church change, it was the type of people who moved in or moved up that influenced. It also reflected the general society of our area.
When I moved in to the area as a kid, it was rural. Acres of orchards, mass producer of the nations fruit. Little fruit stands lined the roads. Then technology moved in, to be fair that’s what brought my family, a semi-conductor start up. In a few years we were a county of competitive people. We looked the part, acted the part and were taking over the world. The farmers, the acres, the road side stands – Gone. Now I type at a computer created by one of those upstart youngsters and the world is at my finger tips, but I spend a lot less time one on one with everyday people.
I also thought my ward was The Way, The Truth, The Light… it wasn’t. Good came from it, but I can’t say everyone feels the same. My present ward is just fighting to be the most conservative. We may win, even though I live in a very liberal state.
I have been In a ward like that – out of over a dozen as an adult. My ward currently is very different than that. Here, there are members and investigators wearing jeans and a t-shirt (or jeans and a sleeveless top with a mesh back, like I saw today on an active young woman) every week, and, as far as I can tell, nobody criticizes them. People here just are happy to have people at church.
I see it more in areas where being Mormon doesn’t make people unique – where something else has to satisfy our natural inclination to want to be special. That leads some to “rebel” in uniquely Mormon ways (like, gasp, a wild hair color), and it leads others to uber-righteousness.
Wards are different from each other, I recently changed wards and I’ve observed two things: 1) The two wards each had their own culture. No mistaking that. One
feltmore welcoming than the other. 2) I don’t know how to explain this one without stepping on toes, even stepping on my own.
Does our overall impression of a ward depend on which side of the “average” ward member we fall on? Take income for example. Does our impression of the ward depend on whether we view ourselves as being above or below the perceived average family income? If we fall well above the average income do we feel like the ward is accepting? If we fall well below the average income do we feel like the ward is less welcoming? Or does it depend on how close to the average we are, if we are somewhere very close to the ward average on either side do we feel like the ward is accepting? If we make well above or well below the ward average does that create distance and make it harder for us to make connections?
I used income to make my questions clearer but I wanted the concept to extend to everything like number of children, talents, callings held, etc. I think some of the phenomenon is due to external influences and some due to internal struggles. Maybe it all hinges on whether we focus on our differences or our similarities. I think we all do a lot of comparing against an ideal. No one wants to admit that they don’t measure up to what is often a mythical ideal so we continue to beat ourselves up.
Which side of the service model we fall on might also have something to do with it as well. We are measurers and comparers by nature, we want to know whether we are net service givers or net service takers.
I only bring this up because I struggle to fit in the culture of my current ward, I wonder how much of it is all in my head. We’ve recently had some act of god hardships land on our doorstep and now we certainly don’t fit the mold of the image/illusion of the ideal life that people like to advertize or present to others.
In cases where a RSP says there are good families and bad families I think it’s open/shut. Not cool.
Quote:Does our overall impression of a ward depend on which side of the “average” ward member we fall on?
I think it does — but it’s different for everyone. I live in a Ward where I would estimate 90% of the people are in a lower socio-economic position than my family. But what makes my opinion somewhat negative, is how averse to hard work they are, on average. Active people will come to church, but try to get them to do things that I know are high-leverage activities, without significant leadership or management skill in motivating them, they won’t do it.
Contrast that to the Ward in which I was in the Bpric. Most were far more wealthy than I was. They did accept me, and when I asked for chapel cleaners, the whole priesthood raised their hands, even youth. So, it’s not the economics that alters my perspective, it’s the people’s propensity for execution. If they are the same or more motivated, I tend to really love the Ward, and think well of the people. When they are not motivated, and need to be dragged to do even basic things, my opinion isn’t as favorable. I still treat everyone with compassion and kindness, but I feel frustrated with them a lot of the time too. To the point I don’t really like the culture, or want to be part of it.
Quote:Does our overall impression of a ward depend on which side of the “average” ward member we fall on? Take income for example. Does our impression of the ward depend on whether we view ourselves as being above or below the perceived average family income? If we fall well above the average income do we feel like the ward is accepting? If we fall well below the average income do we feel like the ward is less welcoming? Or does it depend on how close to the average we are, if we are somewhere very close to the ward average on either side do we feel like the ward is accepting? If we make well above or well below the ward average does that create distance and make it harder for us to make connections?
My wife and I have lived in about eight different wards in the 20 or so years that we have been married. We have always integrated well. We’ve fallen on both sides of that income line depending on where we were in our lives. Regardless, we always participated actively. Volunteered where we could. And the majority of our personal ward experiences have been positive. That said, I know that there were many in each of these same wards who were discontented and unhappy. I couldn’t say for sure why (reasons varied from place to place) but my wife and I made a pact to settle in wherever we ended up and to make the best of any place where we would be. Now I’m not really a very positive person by nature but approaching each new ward positively helped us a great deal. So we have fit in on that basis alone. That doesn’t mean I don’t feel like a misfit from time to time (I do) but I’m not isolated either. Our current ward and bishop are great. He’s coming to the end of his tenure and I fear that his replacement won’t be as effective but here’s hoping (fingers crossed).
Quote:Gerald wrote: My wife and I have lived in about eight different wards in the 20 or so years that we have been married. We have always integrated well. We’ve fallen on both sides of that income line depending on where we were in our lives. Regardless, we always participated actively. Volunteered where we could. And the majority of our personal ward experiences have been positive. That said, I know that there were many in each of these same wards who were discontented and unhappy. I couldn’t say for sure why (reasons varied from place to place) but my wife and I made a pact to settle in wherever we ended up and to make the best of any place where we would be. Now I’m not really a very positive person by nature but approaching each new ward positively helped us a great deal. So we have fit in on that basis alone. That doesn’t mean I don’t feel like a misfit from time to time (I do) but I’m not isolated either. Our current ward and bishop are great. He’s coming to the end of his tenure and I fear that his replacement won’t be as effective but here’s hoping (fingers crossed).
Gerald, we’ve always felt that if we were happy with where we came from, we would be happy with where we were going. Attitude is everything. We have always managed to integrate into past wards. Because of our successful integration in the past, it has been especially difficult to be struggling so much with this one.
Yes, this is a high achieving ward. Most families have a housekeeper. We fit that profile. Financially, we have done well, we hold our own in our ward. We have been generous with our time and talents. I have always been put into a leadership role in every ward we have been in. This ward has been no different in that aspect.
It feels like I’m an engineer that ended up in a Sales convention. Nothing wrong with engineers. Nothing wrong with salesmen. But, they are often very different in how they approach life.
We are not ugly people. We don’t dress funny. We both hold advanced degrees. Our youngest is socially awkward . She is also academically brilliant. She has been encouraged to apply for a NASA internship, she is being recruited by high-end universities, Her SAT scores were 99th percentile at the age of 14. She ran out of high school math/science courses this last year. She is starting college in the fall at a university that is set up with a dorm just for young early admit students. She will be on a full tuition and books scholarship. She is still too young to have a drivers license.
She is our problem at church. People want to treat her like she is mentally retarded. I had someone ask if we had talked with her about children and maybe having something permanently done to prevent them. She is so different from the average girl in our ward. She is shunned by the other girls and the parents.
This same kid, we go to a science/math event and they LOVE her. Teachers in school adore her. They ask to stay in contact with her. She was the lead in at least 2 plays each year for the past 3 years, and she was on student senate. She loves people, but her areas of interest — physics, math, astronomy — are so different from the other Mia Maids. She is made to feel that she is a second class citizen at church. And I have resented it.
What is really sad .. DD is uncomfortable to talk about her academic successes. She never discusses them and she is unhappy when I mention them. She tells people that she changed schools when she started 8th grade and due to her odd schedule, she ended up with electives that were more math and science focused .. And that put her ahead. She doesn’t mention taking Geometry, algebra 2, physics, biology, and astronomy all in the same year.. At 13.
It finally reached a point that I became fairly open about expecting my daughter to be treated better. Nothing has changed in her treatment, but I see people taking a step back from me. This last year, I have taken a step away from the ward and from church. I am bitter about the entire thing.
DD is never going to win points for being cool and stylish. She is capable, a great public speaker, and does her best to care for everyone around her. None of that counts. Cool and Stylish are the only metrics used.
Unfortunately, it isn’t just her. I see other youth being driven away.
We have a large number of men who attend church with their children as their wives are inactive. I can count 8-10 men that fall into that category. We have a few families living in the boundaries of the ward who refuse to attend this ward. They attend elsewhere. We have had families move in and quickly move out to a different ward. Each individual person in the ward is wonderful, but there is a group dynamic that isn’t healthy.
nibbler wrote:
Does our overall impression of a ward depend on which side of the “average” ward member we fall on?I think this is a very interesting point. Part of what draws us into the culture of a ward is the feeling of acceptance and connection we feel with the people around us. If there are a lot of people like us, it will be easier to find a place where we fit in and find commonalities. I think this applies to all sorts of statuses and states of mind. For example, I match my ward’s average physically and economically, but I definitely feel out of the group in my political/social viewpoints and my struggle with black and white thinking.
I have always hated the concept of teaching to the ideal. While I understand the need for a model to strive toward, I just feel like putting the ideal family/person on a pedestal is individually harmful. I have serious struggles with perfectionism and feelings of unworthiness which I think stem from the idea that if I just try hard enough, I’ll finally be that perfect wife/mom/ward member/woman. The ideal is impossible to attain and, at least for me, drives us away from God’s grace. Part of my faith journey is learning to let go of the ideal and just being enough for who I am, where I am.
amateurparent wrote:She is our problem at church. People want to treat her like she is mentally retarded.
I had someone ask if we had talked with her about children and maybe having something permanently done to prevent them.She is so different from the average girl in our ward. She is shunned by the other girls and the parents. What?! Just… what??!!!! What is wrong with people?!
This is what I mean about the problems with only teaching the ideal. Somehow, your ward has gotten the idea that since your DD doesn’t fit their ideal, it’s okay for them to shun her. I hate that. I hate that there are people who feel completely justified in excluding someone because they don’t match the model.
I am glad that your DD does have places like school where she is acknowledged and respected. She sounds like an incredible person.
Quote:NTM wrote: I have serious struggles with perfectionism and feelings of unworthiness which I think stem from the idea that if I just try hard enough, I’ll finally be that perfect wife/mom/ward member/woman. The ideal is impossible to attain and, at least for me, drives us away from God’s grace. Part of my faith journey is learning to let go of the ideal and just being enough for who I am, where I am.
Close your eyes and imagine the most perfect room in your house. Think of everything in that room being just the way you want it to be. Now, open your eyes and tell me, “Where were the people?”. Years ago, when someone did this with me, it made a huge impression on me. It made me re-assess things a little. I’m still a neat-freak .. But not quite as much so as I used to be. Perfect rooms don’t contain people. People tend to make rooms and lives messy, and I love that. People are what makes life worth living.
I decided that life is about learning and it isn’t fair to expect myself to get every answer correct first time every time .. That would mean I’m not really learning .. I’m just reviewing what I already know. The hard lessons don’t have easy answers. You mess up and make huge mistakes, learn, and keep trying.
I think we all just need to admit that this is really hard and give each other a break! Everyone is doing the best they can or want to.
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