Administrative or Charismatic Church – Can they coexist?

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Paul Dunn is a good example. I’m personally a little uncomfortable with the pedestal that Pres. Uchtdorf is being put on. The Givens come to mind as well.

I have to agree. If they fall, it’s a long long fall down. Even if they don’t fall, putting people on pedestals robs them of their humanity. The man or woman up on the pedestal is no longer permitted to be imperfect, irritable, tired, or anything even slightly negative. Don’t get me wrong, I like Pres. Uchtdorf as well as some of the others but I’m not a big fan of hero worship. The “celebrity” culture that surrounds some of our general authorities (which I don’t think the G.A.’s encourage) rubs me the wrong way.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know what to make of Paul Dunn. People bend the truth to tell faith promoting stories all the time. He demonstrated that there’s a point where it breaks if you bend it far enough. Maybe the main difference is that Paul didn’t get the benefit of a few hundred years passing by to solidify some of the legends.

Perhaps Paul did us all a service in drawing a line in the sand. Up until then I’m not sure the line was all that visible in church… otherwise Paul might not have crossed it.

Gerald wrote:

Don’t get me wrong, I like Pres. Uchtdorf as well as some of the others but I’m not a big fan of hero worship. The “celebrity” culture that surrounds some of our general authorities (which I don’t think the G.A.’s encourage) rubs me the wrong way.

I’m with you on that one. The thread about a downturn in religious influence got me thinking. When one mythology fades another rises to take its place. I don’t think we’d be well served should celebrity culture take over the reigns.

I’ve got to catch myself. I’d rather not:

Ooh, ooh, ooh, Uchtdorf is speaking, this is going to be good

Ugh, Packer is speaking, might as well go make a sandwich

Either extreme might make me only hear what I wanted to hear as opposed to what I needed to hear.

[Anonymous]

nibbler wrote:

I’ve got to catch myself. I’d rather not:

Ooh, ooh, ooh, Uchtdorf is speaking, this is going to be good

Ugh, Packer is speaking, might as well go make a sandwich

Either extreme might make me only hear what I wanted to hear as opposed to what I needed to hear.

I like it when threads make me think, and this one has done so. I am as opposed to hero worship in the church as anyone, particularly worship of Joseph Smith (which I think Mormonism is guilty of to some extent) and whoever the current president is. But, I have been guilty of that which Nibbler describes.

[Anonymous]

Quote:

Paul Dunn is a good example. I’m personally a little uncomfortable with the pedestal that Pres. Uchtdorf is being put on. The Givens come to mind as well.

We know the Givens on a personal basis. We used to be in their ward and socialized with them quite a bit. They’re very down to earth people and not at all people you need to worry about. Sometimes Terryl says things that go right over my head, but that’s a different issue. They are charismatic speakers is guess, but a think part of that is performance for impact sake. They would laugh if they knew someone said that about them.

I’ve known others who fit the bill of what you’re talking about though. It can be a dangerous thing and I don’t trust people like that. I’ll take boring authenticity any day.

[Anonymous]

I was the “charismatic” bishop. I gave everybody hugs, knew all the kids in the ward, and what they liked to do. Took the YM to the Skate-park and showed them I was a better skater than them. I could speak off the cuff in any meeting, and keep people awake. But, I never wanted to do a quarterly report, ignored the stupid “extra reports” required by our area authority, and tried to miss all the stake meetings I was required to attend. I let my counselors and clerks do the dirty work.

I was replaced by an “administrative” bishop. He is a business man, and executive of a large corporation. He shook your hand from 3 feet away. He was very by the book (I never even knew we had a book!), he micro managed PEC and Correlation meeting, and pretty much ran the ward by himself. But guess what, the ward still loved him just like me. Just for different reasons. I’m sure there was people I was able to touch that the new bishop would not have been able to. And I’m positive that there were people that did not like my lax style of running the ward, and were glad for the change of leadership. It all works out in the end.

[Author]

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