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OK, the day has come. My sensible, 16 year old daughter sat me down and told me a 16 year old from high school (non-member) will likely ask her to be his girlfriend. A non-member guy. She wondered what we thought, and is essentially asking for permission. I asked her what “being a girlfriend” means. And she said the they may hold hands, hang out together, not be in each others’ rooms, and that she has “standards”. She did a body length motion and said “all this is mine”. I was actually impressed how unembarrassed she was and matter of fact about asking for our opinion.
I asked about his family (lives with mother), religions values (has none), academic background (smart but not a top student), hobbies — a musician. Does not have a lot of friends. Is generally quiet and would likely be awkward if he met us. I saw his picture and he looks nothing like the typical Mormon youth we see in pictures (long hair, a bit scruffy looking).
My wife and I are processing right now, as it breaks new ground for our relationship with our daughter (again — the changes have been fast and furious), and she is our first child of 2.
Comments — what would you say in my shoes? NOt asking for you tell me what to do, just want opinion as I work through it and reach a point where I feel as comfortable as is possible in situations like this…
SilentDawning wrote:I was actually impressed how unembarrassed she was and matter of fact about asking for our opinion.
For me I think the ideal situation would be an open dialouge and a teaching moment.
Perhaps some discussion about some of the cautions about pairing off and dating exclusively. It can be benefitial to have a variety of dating experiences etc.
Perhaps you might ask her what her thoughts and concerns might be.
For the most part however, I would emphasize how mature she seems to be in coming to you, that you have faith in her to have a good head on her shoulders to make prudent decisions, and that you will support her in whatever she chooses.
:clap: Silent D – whatever happens from here, remember this moment. You have done well when your kid wants to talk to you. A+.My advice is keep the door open. All of us have plans, all of us have success, and we all have failure/screw-ups/and let downs. If she can talk to you during those, too. Then you have made it. So my advice is keep doing what your doing.
Wow, I am impressed with your daughter’s forthrightness. You have taught her well, Obi Wan. 
We live in an area with few Mormons. My son is the only member in his high school. That is not unusual here, and our large geographic ward has kids from 5 high schools – yet we usually don’t have enough boys to do the sacrament. We have one active deacon. Dating non-members is pretty normal and accepted here, if kids want to be social at school they pretty much have to date non-members. Each of our children has. As long as they have the attitude your daughter has we have not had a problem, and they have each understood things like not being in each other’s bedrooms. Don’t judge this boy because he sins differently than you do!
Our oldest daughter dated a non-member exclusively her senior year in high school. He is Catholic and was a junior. We were the only active Mormon family in the town, so there wasn’t an option to date any Mormon guys. He was a good kid. We told her we trusted her and that it was her decision. Our third daughter has been dating a Mormon kid exclusively since she turned 16. He is a work in progress in many ways, but he is a good kid. We told her we trusted her and that it was her decision.
I love that she came to you and that she is so open about her standards – and how she expressed herself. At some point, we have to accept that we have taught our kids correct principles and watch them govern themselves.
She later came and “confessed” that she had already decided to date him, and had been out a few times in a dating relationship the last two weeks and didn’t tell us, fitting him around other visits where we knew what she was doing and who she was with. So, this idea of “thinking” about doing it was actually a way of testing our reaction. But I’m glad she actually came to me and told me that part of it. I’ve been working on an assignment for school as a student, and processing this at the same time. I eventually spoke with her again we talked further after some of my authentic feelings materialized. I told her I was actually a bit hurt that she didn’t tell us outright what she;d been doing, but that it was to her credit that she was willing to now talk openly about it, and decided to be forthright. She said she was concerned about our reaction, and that was why she tested the waters first. She then went and prayed about what to do and felt she should tell us all.
I asked her to look up the strength of youth and what it says. She found it and read it — basically to avoid steady dating to avoid a) limiting experiences that can help one choose a partner someday, and b) avoid moral problems. That dating should happen in groups until one was serious about a marriage partner. She disagreed strongly with that approach, citing the practice of many good LDS families that allow their kids to date steadily at 16.
She assured us many times about her standards, and seemed to want us just to trust her…I indicated I wasn’t sure how I felt about it, but that I agreed with the idea of seeing a lot of different people, but only steadily when one is serious about marriage. She had concerns about appearing to be a “field player” if you go out with certain boys and then drop them — you get a reputation for being “loose” even when you aren’t.
I gave her some words of caution — about the car, about how young men feel, and that we expected her to live the standards she’s been exposed to. And to be honest with us. She took full responsibility for not being forthright with us. She also agreed for us to meet him, and seems to want that to happen since he is a musician like myself.
Not sure how I feel about this. I guess the church’s standards of group dating at 16 and then serious dating when a person is ready to actually find a marriage partner would have me at ease, but I never though seriously about this, and never really taught her one way or the other. So, she has filled that void with her own opinion. I kind of left the conversation saying I didn’t know how i felt about it, but that I was glad to know the full truth, and credited her for the way she came to us about this maturely.
Boy, life is really making me grow up fast right now. And it shows how voids in home-based education on matters like these put life in the drivers’ seat rather than parental values. Again, not sure how I feel, these are just random musings.
SD, just breathe. This is all completely normal, and should be celebrated :clap: I have 4 children, and haven’t found one that agrees with the nothing but group dating until you get serious idea. I am not even sure I think it is really feasible. I encouraged my kids to double date with friends if possible, and to spend time at home with the families. We can be fun and we are a cheap date🙂 . As far as her “asking” you, that really was just testing the waters since she is already seeing him. I had a daughter ask me the same thing. I knew that if I said no she would see him anyway, and it appears your daughter has decided the same. I felt it was safer to say yes, and give the requisite lectures on parking in a car together, bedrooms, etc. I did do something that worked well, and that was not giving a set curfew. I told her what time to be home based on the activity. I usually allowed 45 minutes to an hour for her to arrive home after the movie/dance/etc were over. No need to kill time somewhere while the clock is ticking. You will all do fine, and I agree with the “teach them correct principles and let them govern themselves”. That is one thing I think we an agree that JS got right🙂 I have also found that having high expectations for our kids choices and behaviors can help. Not unreasonable, just high. One time I asked a teacher what was the lowest grade you could get to receive an A on a project. The teacher responded with “if I tell you the lowest grade you could get you wouldn’t aim for anything higher”. So very true. I just told my kids I had great confidence in their ability to make right choices, and that I trusted them to remember what they had been taught. They have not disappointed me.
Well, good resolution to the problem. We talked to each other off and on today, and she eventually wrote to the guy in text and explained her standards. Her goals of a temple marriage, sexual purity, etcetera. Laid out what he could expect from her, and that excluded passionate kissing…. His responses showed her that he “hadn’t ruled out physical intimacy on a large scale”, which turned her off. She acknowledged that the gray panther (my affectionate name for myself) had hit a number of nails on the head with my concerns about his lack of religious values. She told him she could not date him — her decision — I didn not force it.
I also shared my belief that steady dating is really for people who are considering marriage, and that having a lot of friends and activities with other guys, in groups, is an effective way to get to know people without all the heartbreak and risk associated with more serious relationships during her teenage years.
Also quoted the Willard Harley Junior (marriage counselor I admire) who said you should date about 30 people before you get married (recognizing marriage is a way off for a 16 year old — to prevent her from rolling her eyes). This is to get to know people.
And after she told the guy he could not date her, she got major kudos from the family, and her Mormon best friend in Utah. I will be taking her out for Panera Bread this week as affirmation of her sensible approach to the problem.
NOw, these are reasons to stay LDS. Church standards helped us through this one, and I now have a philosophy of what I think dating should be.
She does listen to me, and tends to weight my opinion fairly heavily. Who knows what will come of all this, but it underscores the importance of teaching children when they are young what your position on certain issues are — particularly this one. I neglected any kind of teaching or training on this subject, and found myself ill-prepared to handle it when it happens.
Thanks for everyone’s input. Out of respect for my daughter, I may delete this thread sometime in the next day or so — but the discussion was helpful. Much appreciated from everyone. It’s amazing how the internet helps us. I had this situation crop up today in the afternoon, told my daugther I wasn’t sure what I thought, posted the question here, and had several intelligent answers within the space of an hour or so. And now, while it vexed me on breaks between my paper-writing as a student, I have a pretty good feel for what I think about the subject.
It’s her choice ultimately, but I’m very proud of her own resolution to the situation.
Thanks again…another reason I post on StayLDS.
This was over before I got to reading it, but it was cool to see the process. :thumbup: Having gone through this and now my 2 daughters are in college…I’ll just say that I learned quickly that others outside the church have standards too. It isn’t like, all church members have these standards, except for a few bad apples, and are safe to date, and all non-members have zero morals and run around without any parental guidance. Some of the non-members here in Colorado that my kids dated actually had more strict rules and standards than we did as mormons. Some didn’t.
It is just good to break that stereo type for our kids who are dating. The decisions on who to date should be about how good that person is, not if they are members.
I found talking with their parents was often welcomed by the other parents. Because many times, their parents were wondering what us weird mormons teach our kids about dating.
Heber13 wrote:Having gone through this and now my 2 daughters are in college…I’ll just say that I learned quickly that others outside the church have standards too. It isn’t like, all church members have these standards, except for a few bad apples, and are safe to date, and all non-members have zero morals and run around without any parental guidance.
Some of the non-members here in Colorado that my kids dated actually had more strict rules and standards than we did as mormons. Some didn’t.
It is just good to break that stereo type for our kids who are dating. The decisions on who to date should be about how good that person is, not if they are members.
I found talking with their parents was often welcomed by the other parents. Because many times, their parents were wondering what us weird mormons teach our kids about dating.
Agreed ..in this case, it was pretty clear he lacked standards, though. And when she first shared the news, all I knew was that he didn’t have any religious values of any kind.
He later admitted it. Nice to know my daughter’s own self-governance took over though. And now I have a philosophy that I feel comfortable with….life without a philosophy lets the world dictate philosophy for you.
Interesting, after my daughter spent her seminary morning researching what the church says about dating, she came to me and said she agreed with the the idea of not steady dating until you’re seriously considering marriage. I have to confess, having a daughter who believes that is the way it should be relieves a lot of concern.
Seems to me that your daughter being able to openly discuss these things with you is the greatest gift you’ve given her on how to work through this stage in life. They need to learn what relationships are, and may have only thought they knew what they were, all filled with ideals of love and goodness. When the real world will teach them about compatibility and hormones and choices and varying character qualities they find attractive or destructive.
SilentDawning wrote:Also quoted the Willard Harley Junior (marriage counselor I admire) who said you should date about 30 people before you get married (recognizing marriage is a way off for a 16 year old — to prevent her from rolling her eyes). This is to get to know people.
SilentDawning wrote:She later came and “confessed” that she had already decided to date him, and had been out a few times in a dating relationship the last two weeks and didn’t tell us, fitting him around other visits where we knew what she was doing and who she was with.
Sounds to me like she already did date him enough to discover some things about their potential compatability. 1 down and 29 to go until the big day. Maybe SD should start putting money away in a “wedding fund.”
:lolno: As a family we learned about how we feel about such things. I thought my daughter’s decision to tell the guy her standards was a very good way to make it clear how she felt about matters likely to come up. I do feel that the structure the church provides is a very positive thing for youth. She relied heavily on it. Wedding fund? Well, I can throw in a free jazz band
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