All About Near Death Experiences

[Anonymous]

bridget_night wrote:

I want to share an interesting story with you.

“Is there really such a being as the Devil”?

…she would no longer have diabetes or need to be on insulin when she returned.

Thanks, bn, for sharing this deeply touching story.

I am interested in harmonizing this with other near death experiences, or putting it on the “map”.

It appears that in response to the Devil question, she experienced the darkness of the void as well as some of the evil intent of some of the beings there. The Ritchie and Storm stories parallel the strength of evil in this darkness. Harmonizing all the experiences I have read, it doesn’t appear there is a single devil, but rather a composite evil of the dark realm that may be personified as a Devil, or as Swedenborg might (not did) say, the Hellish Man.

The post-experience blessing of amazing health is remarkably common among near-death stories, as is the “evidence” aspect of the blessing.

[Anonymous]

There must needs be opposition in all things…so NDEs that turn out happy (near death but didn’t die … and experiences of light and unworldly comfort) can only help us understand part of the experiences…understanding the evils can help understand more, I would think.

[Anonymous]

I agree. In my first few days of Near Death Studies (the week of October 27, 2003), one of the powerful elements was the sudden understanding of the nature of evil.

When atheist Howard Storm’s tormentors coaxed him into the pit, they did it like this: Taking advantage of his angry state on finding himself out of the body in his hospital room (“I can’t be dead! @#*!&! What is going on here!), they began by whispering from a fog, “Come here. Come see this!” Then “Hurry! Come see this!” As he followed them into the fog (reference Lehi’s dream and the fellow in the white robe NOT a holy person) they started to mock and abuse him, “You big fool, you can’t do anything right! What a joke!” Then he heard them shushing each other, “Not yet! You will make him stop following us!” Darker and darker, for hours or months he followed as they became increasingly rude and crude and vile until at last he found himself in the darkest abyss (reference Alma the Younger Alma 36) where they tore him to pieces for sport and simulated the most vile acts on him until he lay rendered in pieces. Only when he lost all fight from despair did their sport abate and did they linger back in silence until he summoned up more fight. Forever the sport and abuse and torment continued. In his fighting he remembered religious things he thought might repel them, “Our Father who art in heaven….” “The Lord is my shepherd….” These things enraged and repelled them, which gave him some gloating satisfaction, but brought no rescue. At last the thought occurred to him (reference again Alma the Younger) that he might call on the name of Jesus Christ. No sooner had this thought possessed him than he saw a light that descended and increased until it surrounded him, put him back together, healed him, and lifted him out of the pit to a place of light. More at http://www.near-death.com/storm.html or in Storm’s book.

[Anonymous]

I guess my question would be: why do near death experiences have more weight than regular dreams/nightmares?

I remember some of the dreams that I had under anesthesia and they were vivid to the point of feeling like real memories for weeks after.

I’m guessing that these experiences all happened in the unconscious realm. Hence, my question.

[Anonymous]

swimordie wrote:

I guess my question would be: why do near death experiences have more weight than regular dreams/nightmares?

I would say they would only have more weight if they have more weight. 😆 Sorry, that’s the mystic talking. Only you can know, and I trust you enough to give you the benefit of the doubt. What do you say about it? You are your own expert. The following apparently had more weight to this non-descript person ( http://www.nderf.org/bobbi_d_nde.htm ):

Quote:

I had been released from the limited prison of the physical body. My mind was a thousand times sharper, free, and able to operate at full capacity, which I was unaware prior to my death was possible. The love was incomparable.

Quote:

It never the less felt more real than any physical relationship. I think of this light now as god.

Quote:

How did you view the reality of your experience shortly (days to weeks) after it happened: Experience was definitely real I never doubted its authenticity. My parents tried to make me doubt it. But, it never could have been done. The experience was the most real, vivid experience I’ve ever had in my life.

Quote:

Were there one or several parts of the experience especially meaningful or significant to you? LOVE LOVE LOVE and this is not the real life. We are not meant to live without spirituality. It is part of who we are.

Quote:

How do you currently view the reality of your experience: Experience was definitely real already explained

One research possibility is to go to http://www.iands.org/nde_archives/experiencer_accounts/ and http://www.nderf.org/Exceptional%20Accounts.htm, open up a few accounts, and search in your browser for the word “real[space]” or “reality”.

Quote:

I remember some of the dreams that I had under anesthesia and they were vivid to the point of feeling like real memories for weeks after.

Did you feel that these dreams were meaningful to your growth as a person? How did they rank among the important dreams and dream themes of your life?

Quote:

I’m guessing that these experiences all happened in the unconscious realm. Hence, my question.

I would tend to agree with you. The unconscious (or imaginal or superconscious) realm is multi-layered, as I understand.

[Anonymous]

I’m trying not to reveal myself as a skeptic. My unconscious life is rather robust but, honestly, I pay it no heed in consciousness. Just judging by my own non-sleeping unconscious experiences, I feel the human mind is powerful beyond our own limited capacity to understand. And, I guess that’s where my skepticism arises.

We don’t understand the power of the unconscious human brain or the subconscious human realm yet when powerful experiences happen, we aren’t willing to say that it was “all in the mind”. There’s lots of possibilities but, in my mind, either people want to believe it so bad that they poo-poo the mind-created for the supernatural or they simply can’t imagine that their own brains could accomplish that.

It brings to bear another aspect of dogmatic religion. Downplaying the human capacity potential and devaluing human accomplishment in deference to “God”. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t want to be sacrilegious, but it’s a thought I’ve had recently. Why do humans belittle the potentials of the human experience? This topic is a great example. People can’t imagine that their unconscious brain can create these events. Why not? In deference to a supernatural force? To validate a seemingly unimaginable experience? To explain the unexplainable?

I’m sorry for my tone. I’m not meaning to be confrontational. I just wonder about these things, how others think, why they think the way they do. This one honestly stumps me.

I guess I can’t hide my skepticism any longer. 😳

[Anonymous]

It’s okay. I’m a strong humanist.

It’s fine with me to say it’s all in the mind. And what a great thing to resist downplaying the human potential. You are a great soul, swimordie!

Would there be any particular reason you would not find value in paying heed in consciousness to your robust unconscious life?

[Anonymous]

Tom Haws wrote:

Would there be any particular reason you would not find value in paying heed in consciousness to your robust unconscious life?

I had that same question pop into my head when I re-read what I wrote. So… I’m not sure. 😳

With my new-found world-view and my personal striving for “staying present”, I guess it just doesn’t fit right now. The idea of trying to interpret some of those experiences warps the conscious mind to the breaking point. Some of those experiences seem easily interpreted, others, outrageously impossible to even try, imo.

So, I guess what I’m saying is, where do you start? I think I mentioned it somewhere else, but there was a book that I heard discussed in which individuals in extreme duress (mountain climbers, etc.) experienced a “presence”, helping them, motivating them, essentially willing them to survive. Often, this presence was in the form of a dead relative or friend, sometimes just a voice, sometimes just a supportive hand on the shoulder.

I take from these experiences that there may be an evolutionary advantage wherein the subconscious mind can “take over” and “push” the physical to survive. In retrospect, these individuals recognized that they were not fully conscious, often due to hypothermia. But they physically persisted and survived, even when they were not fully conscious.

And, I’m a big believer in the collective subconscious, which explains to me premonition and, to a certain extent, telepathy. So, I’m a skeptic but keeping my mind open. I don’t doubt that there’s “something” “there”. I’m just skeptical of the supernatural being the explanation when we haven’t even scratched the surface of what the human mind is capable of.

[Anonymous]

I beg very belatedly your collective forgiveness for this lame bit of whining. How embarrassing to read that from myself! You guys were just fine. Just fine. I was out of line.

Tom Haws wrote:

2. This thread seems, in bulk, to be dedicated to debating/exploring the meaning of NDE. In other words, a meta-discussion has overtaken a proper technical discussion of NDE phenomenology and data. The thread seems not to be really “All About NDEs”, but “What about NDEs?”. Do you have the interest and energy to look closely enough to talk “All About NDEs”? Can I call thread-jack? Is that fair? Maybe not. Suppose I propose that rather than postulate about whether we can accept XYZ mechanism for this unknown quantity called Near Death Experiences, we instead work on defining the subject. What is a Near Death Experience? What does it look like? In other words, if I am going to understand the reality that stages a Near Death Experience, shouldn’t I start by understanding the experience itself? So I ask you and all of us, “What do you understand the Near Death Experience to entail?” “What is the full range of phenomenology to account for (on another thread or in another era)?”

[Anonymous]

Here is an old thread about near death experiences.

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