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Orson, that is precisely how I feel. Thank you for saying it so well. Hear, hear. That was very well put. I came across this old thread today and think it might be useful for many of you who weren’t around when it was posted. It’s directly relevant to many of the discussions we’ve had recently, and I think the overall topic is central to many faith crises. Please read the original post and the comments, then add any insight you might have.
A common theme on the mission was the all or nothing philosophy, it was often applied to the principles of the BofM’s veracity. Then you hear quotes like these: “He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds the world has ever seen, there is no middle ground.”
Yep, this is one issue where there are competing voices. That’s why it’s so important to come to terms with it personally and individually. The thing is Pres. Hinckley said what he did because he believed the all or nothing and for him, I think, it was more than just a rhetorical device to strenthen others faith. The the prophet would say that makes it hard to spin it so it’s not an all or nothing thing. People believe becuase they want to believe and either ignore or make up reasons to finesse the problem bits. Maybe “make up” is a bit harsh but to me it comes down to that. I understand that, GB – but it’s one thing to understand what he meant, to understand his perspective, and even to accept that as the dominant view of the overall membership – and it’s another thing entirely to over-extend what he said (going from the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith to the entire aggregate of current culture, for example – which Pres. Unchtdorf has repudiated openly and directly in a recent General Conference), to reject his perspective entirely for all, and to ignore the MANY members (including leaders) who don’t see it the same way. Also, it important, imo, to see that the quote doesn’t say, “He was perfect and never sinned” – or even, “Every word that a Prophet utters is straight revelation from God.” There’s lots of room for varying interpretations and understandings even of a statement like this one in the LDS Church, as long as it is understood that there is nothing inherently wrong with religion being the opiate of the masses. That might be true, but it isn’t automatically bad – and that’s a hard thing for many to understand.
Old-Timer wrote:Also, it important, imo, to see that the quote doesn’t say, “He was perfect and never sinned” – or even, “Every word that a Prophet utters is straight revelation from God.”
I agree and assume he was speaking of the foundational events, the first vision, Moroni and the Book of Mormon, the prophecies recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, the PoGP, etc. and not Joseph Smith as a man with faults and failings. In that sense anyone who professes a testimony is an all or none believer because for them those events are believed in spite of any suggestion of JS as a flawed human being. But what if you don’t believe some or all of the foundational events, then what do you do? I assume you fall back on the good things that people have tried to do and try to be part of that enterprise and not worry about the church being true with a capital “T”.
This is exactly where I am caught. I cannot seem to find a middle ground: If there is a God and Christ is his Son, then Mormonism is true solely because it fills in many holes that are obviously missing from Biblical doctrine. Conversely, however, if Mormonism is not “true” then there is no God and EVERYTHING is a lie. Additionally, if the Book of Mormon is fake and made up (which I go back and forth on regularly), then Mormonism is NOT true and is ALL fake and made up. I can’t seem to find my way around this. It really, really sucks.
wonderasiwander wrote:I can’t seem to find my way around this. It really, really sucks.
Focus on the fact that you can see this conundrum, that you know what you are experiencing and why you are seeing it that way. You clearly see also that “it sucks” for you. That tells you this deeply rooted part of your faith is not working for you.
Knowing is half the battle.
Meditating on all this, giving ourself contemplative time, and trying to imagine our beliefs as an object in our hands that we can turn all around and examine, that has helped many people. It is a process of thinking about thinking, and helps us detach from the processes in our soul so we can shape them.
Every single point of doctrine, belief and faith is not connected (in any religion). It is only connected in our minds. We build those long chains of dependency.
Just adding to this idea, Viktor Frankl talks about the idea of inner conflict in the book Man’s Search for Meaning. He criticized the modern notion (and particularly pointed it out as an American trait) that we should be settled and certain on things or view things in a polarized fashion. He simply said it’s not how we are constructed. He stated that inner conflict is what is normal and healthy. wonderasiwander wrote:This is exactly where I am caught. I cannot seem to find a middle ground: If there is a God and Christ is his Son, then Mormonism is true solely because it fills in many holes that are obviously missing from Biblical doctrine. Conversely, however, if Mormonism is not “true” then there is no God and EVERYTHING is a lie. Additionally, if the Book of Mormon is fake and made up (which I go back and forth on regularly), then Mormonism is NOT true and is ALL fake and made up.
I can’t seem to find my way around this. It really, really sucks.
One way I think of it is that Free Agency and faith are requirements in this plan. That means there are things that we just don’t know, and can’t prove one way or another.For example, the bible tells the story of Jonah being swallowed by a whale for 3 days, then spit up on the beach again. I can’t figure out how someone would survive such a thing or how it could possibly happen or be true. However, my doubts around the story do not make the entire Bible true or the entire Bible false. Nor does the Book of Mormon or the modern prophets help me fill the gaps in that teaching of the bible.
Instead, there can be a new way to look at it, that accepts the biblical stories and their teachings, but leaves enough spaces between things that mysteries can exist and I can use my free agency to choose what I have faith in, and by implementing things in my life, I experience good things or not, and can judge for myself a middle ground between ALL TRUE or ALL FALSE.
Clearly God never intended it to be an air-tight story when handed to prophets…all things require opposition and choice to work it out internally for ourselves…and in there somewhere is space for middle ground, if one so chooses.
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