Amen and amen.

[Anonymous]

This might be just a trivial topic but it is something that is a minor annoyance in modern church practice. It is the habit of saying “amen” and its various forms after just about everything. Sometimes it seems like we say it out of habit and expectation and it seems kind of akward. I’ll try to give some examples.

The other day the missionaries stopped by for about 5 minutes. The one Elder wanted to leave a message so he opened the BOM and gave a nice short thought. We could have ended right there. He looked up and said…”in the name of thy Son Jesus Christ, Amen”. At the moment, it seemed really akward and just made me think of how odd this might seem to someone else.

Another example of course is after every testimony or whenever a leader is addressing a group or whenever someone seems to want to make a bigger impression. It seems to lose its impact when used all of the time especially when used almost in an obligatory way after we say just about anything in the church.

Now, I know that this is not a big deal and but it seems like it is a saying that has become so rote that it has lost a lot of meaning. It is just a practice that I put in the category of insisting we say an opening & closing prayer after just about every meeting. You end SM, go to SS and begin and end with a prayer. I understand we should pray but is an opening prayer after just closing a meeting with prayer really mean anything?

Anyway, I was wondering what others had to say or if it bothered them to hear this all the time. I tried to google a few articles on the subject and found two that were kind of interesting.

http://ldsmag.com/article/1/10958

and

http://boaporg.wordpress.com/2010/04/04/in-the-name-of-jesus-christ-amen/

[Anonymous]

traditions of our fathers.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[Anonymous]

What cwald said. I personally don’t say “in the name of . . .” quite often when others automatically do.

Last night at a stake fireside about Seminary, our Stake President gave a welcome from the pulpit that included a review of policies and procedures. At the end, he said, “Thank you,” and sat down. It was awesome to see and hear.

[Anonymous]

Well, couple of thoughts.

First, I agree with you that it very often is unconscious and rote… “in the name of thy son…” is a great example. It’s also sometimes clumsy: “inthenameofjesuschristamen!”

However, those are weaknesses of individuals. Could a 13 year-old girl do a better job speaking in church?… heck ya… but it’s hard to fault her for going up in front of everyone and speaking. Could a 16-year old Priest offer a more sincere version of the Sacrament Prayer? Most likely, but again, good for him that he’s up there doing it. Over the years, I’ve heard very unpolished testimonies that might sound awkward to a visitor who didn’t know that the guy hates to speak in public, and is overcoming a lot just to stand there, or that the woman had a tragedy a while ago, and is struggling. In other words, yes, it can sound weird, depending on the person behind it, but that doesn’t mean it’s bad in itself.

This is the kind of thing where, privately… individually… it can have as much or as little meaning as a person wants to give it. Saying ‘Amen’ at the end of a prayer or a talk is something I do when I agree, and I say it more emphatically, when I really agree, but I usually don’t say it at all if I either don’t agree, or am indifferent to it. That connects the message to me. It’s one of the few places where we get a ‘voice’ in the LDS church, even it if it only privately, so from that standpoint, I am happy with the practice.

Besides, it’s a great way to know how to end a talk, and to know that the speaker is done

Amen.

[Anonymous]

I would personally love a culture of spontaneous “amens”, “hallelujahs”, and “hosannas” in the LDS church. As long as it didn’t become an affectation…

[Anonymous]

turinturambar wrote:

I would personally love a culture of spontaneous “amens”, “hallelujahs”, and “hosannas” in the LDS church. As long as it didn’t become an affectation…

I do too. Routine lowers sincerity and conviction I feel. But I would like to point out that in “counting my blessings” that I feel blessed to be able to speak my own words during prayer instead of the same prescribed prayers every day for the rest of my life writting 100s or 1000s o years ago with words that are not my own as in some religions. I love to be able to talk freely with my own sincere words to god. I love saying and hearing those things just to long as they don’t become monotonous or tradition that becomes law.

[Anonymous]

turinturambar wrote:

I would personally love a culture of spontaneous “amens”, “hallelujahs”, and “hosannas” in the LDS church. As long as it didn’t become an affectation…

I would also love to hear personal expressions in each individual’s flavor. Instead of “amen” or “hallelujah” my personal style would be more of an “Absolutely!”

[Anonymous]

I agree that people generally don’t think about what they are saying when they close a talk or testimony. saying ” In the name of thy son.” is perfectly fine in a prayer because the person is praying to God. In a talk or testimony however they are addressing the congregation. Jesus would not be the son of the congregation. A talk/ testimony really should be ended with something along the lines of ” I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ Amen.”

Personally I was always a little annoyed with the phrasing ” Even the name of Jesus Christ.”

I know Gordon B. Hinckley would end his prayers like that. I would let that slide because he was the prophet. (This was my TBM days.)

When regular LDS people use the phrase “Even the name of Jesus Christ” I am a little annoyed. I don’t understand the meaning of the phrase. Anyone that I took the time to ask what the phrase means they could never give me a straight answer. The generic answer I was given was that it is an acceptable way to close the prayer.

If anyone here knows the meaning or significance of the EVEN the name of Jesus Christ please do share.

Regardless I agree with Cwald that all these things have been copied from others and it is the tradition of our fathers.

I would like to end this forum post in the name of THY SON. EVEN the name of Jesus Christ AMEN.

[Anonymous]

greenapples wrote:

If anyone here knows the meaning or significance of the EVEN the name of Jesus Christ please do share.

I wouldn’t say I KNOW it, but some comparison helps to understand it.

Look at 1 John 5. Verse 4 and verse 6 both use this phrasing:

1 John 5:4 wrote:

…and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:6 wrote:

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ…

So, it’s a clarifying, drill-down phrase… I just told you what it was, now I’m going to name it. Modern translations do something like this:

1 John 5:4 (NRSV) wrote:

…this is the victory that conquers the world, our faith.

1 John 5:6 (NRSV) wrote:

This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ…

Others use a hyphen… The New King James version uses a hyphen in both verses

1 John 5:6 (NKJV) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ

So, it’s basically a connector between the phrases. Wayfarer can probably give you the technical term, but I have only a BS in engineering, so I’m not as up on the English stuff

Bottom line, it’s archaic speech but perfectly valid. The NIV retains the “even” phrasing.

I think all of the following would be viable representations:

1 John 5:6 (made up version 1) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood, being, Jesus Christ…

1 John 5:6 (made up version 2) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood, specifically, Jesus Christ…

1 John 5:6 (made up version 3) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood, namely, Jesus Christ…

1 John 5:6 (made up version 4) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood, that is to say, Jesus Christ…

[Anonymous]

And they always pronounce it, “eh, men?” not “ah men…” like it should be.

[Anonymous]

On Own Now wrote:

greenapples wrote:

If anyone here knows the meaning or significance of the EVEN the name of Jesus Christ please do share.

I wouldn’t say I KNOW it, but some comparison helps to understand it.

Look at 1 John 5. Verse 4 and verse 6 both use this phrasing:

1 John 5:4 wrote:

…and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1 John 5:6 wrote:

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ…

So, it’s a clarifying, drill-down phrase… I just told you what it was, now I’m going to name it. Modern translations do something like this:

1 John 5:4 (NRSV) wrote:

…this is the victory that conquers the world, our faith.

1 John 5:6 (NRSV) wrote:

This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ…

Others use a hyphen… The New King James version uses a hyphen in both verses

1 John 5:6 (NKJV) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ

So, it’s basically a connector between the phrases. Wayfarer can probably give you the technical term, but I have only a BS in engineering, so I’m not as up on the English stuff

Bottom line, it’s archaic speech but perfectly valid. The NIV retains the “even” phrasing.

I think all of the following would be viable representations:

1 John 5:6 (made up version 1) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood, being, Jesus Christ…

1 John 5:6 (made up version 2) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood, specifically, Jesus Christ…

1 John 5:6 (made up version 3) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood, namely, Jesus Christ…

1 John 5:6 (made up version 4) wrote:

This is He who came by water and blood, that is to say, Jesus Christ…

Thanks for the information. I think you answered it very well.

SamBee wrote:

And they always pronounce it, “eh, men?” not “ah men…” like it should be.

#255946

[Anonymous]

There are some times that I have just wanted to outright clap in sacrament meeting because a piece of piano music was so beautiful. But of course, we don’t do it, because it might seem irreverant maybe? Gosh, how I wish I could!

[Anonymous]

Yeah, “reverence” is like “modesty” in the sense that we have screwed up the pure, root meaning and turned it into a hedge about the original meaning.

[Anonymous]

kmullin211984 wrote:

There are some times that I have just wanted to outright clap in sacrament meeting because a piece of piano music was so beautiful. But of course, we don’t do it, because it might seem irreverant maybe? Gosh, how I wish I could!

I have too. Or sometimes hearing a person share a personal story about the gospel I thier lives and you know they are a nervous public speaker fighting it just to tell their story and just want to give them a thumps up or clap.

[Author]

Posts