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I can’t think how else to describe it. Lately when I contemplate the church, I just sort of have this weird feeling about it. On some blog somewhere I read a comment along these lines, “when Jesus was here on earth he was a radical, but now he seems to be a suit and tie conservative.” This is how I feel when I compare the teachings of Jesus to the church. He rebuked the people in the bible who were strict to enforce made up rules, and yet the church is always adding new requirements or programs that to me detract from the simple gospel of Christ. We are taught at church to follow the spirit in discerning good from evil, and yet many TBM’s response to my feeling would be that it is wrong. That I need to keep praying etc. to get the “right” answer that the church is true. So I can never win with that approach. I came to distrust my own instincts. So what do I make of this? Is it the spirit telling me that Mormonism is wrong, or am I “passed feeling”? I think I could continue to be a Christian, in the sense that I would want to follow the teachings of Christ in the bible. But I don’t know if I want to stay with this church if it makes me feel weird, but then I don’t believe I can feel the spirit, since I can’t trust my own feelings it seems.
I can understand your concern. I had a significant answer to prayer in the temple on Saturday. When I tell people about it, some will presume that I must have been wrong – despite the location and experience being very similar to when I’ve prayed about other things.
I am feeling quite disenfranchised with the LDS church organisation (the corporation). The LDS.org front page had the ‘rich man’ video recently. Given the amount of money sloshing around the church and the shopping malls/apartment blocks going up it seemed sadly ironic:
https://www.lds.org/bible-videos/videos/christ-and-the-rich-young-ruler?lang=eng I do have some of the same thoughts that you have, particularly about made up rules, etc. That’s actually what Jesus spent most of his time (at least what we have recorded) teaching against amongst the Jews. Yet we’ve fallen into the same traps. I can’t experience your feelings, they’re yours and mine are mine. I do think at times I am past feeling but it’s partly because I learned not to trust my feelings and tend to ignore them. So, were I you I’d find myself ignoring the feeling, but I’m not you. I’m not sure that’s a help to you, and I know that most people here as well as most TBMs would think that following feelings is important. But at this time I can’t and won’t. I have had similar feelings. For me, it’s a feeling like sucking air through a straw when you want liquid. I have found it in these circumstances: a) Praying for miracles.
b) Trying to find inner peace through church service.
c) Serving in callings that seem to benefit the church more than mankind.
d) Learning administrative rules, such as who can ordain who, under what circumstances, the order of operations in getting someone ordained, etcetera. Anything to do with learning manmade rules for governing the church. They seem hollow to me and extraneous to becoming a better person.
I once left a meeting with the purpose of our programs seared into my mind from one of the speakers — it was to train the youth and new converts so they could become leaders in the church.
Sounds like a noble cause if you don’t think about it, but it’s church-centric. The goal is for them to become christlike people. That can happen with or withou ascension or training in leadership, in my view. That was another sucking air experience.
The other one was when Gordon B Hinckley said the brethren are real proponents of education because “its increases members’ capacity to serve in the church”.
That one hit me between the eyes as it too was self-serving. I would have hoped he would have promoted education because of the way it expands the mind, increases a person’s capacity to be effective in life and eternity, brings glory to God in developing intelligence, and increaeses the chances of economic prosperity for some people. Not that it serves the interests of the church as an organization.
journeygirl wrote:…I can’t trust my own feelings it seems.
Trust your feelings, Lu… er… journeygirl. Seriously, you have to do what feels right and good. If that is in the Church, fine, if that is in Christianity at large, fine, if that is in Buddhism, fine. Don’t let confusion about whether you can trust your own feelings lead you to feel like you can’t find a way ahead. No matter what path you choose, do it because it is what you think is right, not to check someone else’s box.I feel like often people like us find ourselves in a situation where we wish OTHER PEOPLE would change their perspectives so that our way of being would be more agreeable to them. I think that is a pointless exercise. We should be confident enough to be the way we are, even if it doesn’t match what other people would do. Not that we seek to rebel for the sake of being rebellious, but rather when we believe something, we shouldn’t have to conform to something else.
I remember a woman saying that when she feels worthless she can rely on God’s word that she is not. I remember it being such a great example of the limitations of feelings. Sometimes the intellect will lead us in a better direction. The D & C says something profound about God speaking to both the heart and mind. Sometimes we can let our heart lead, sometimes our head. Sometimes they will both be wrong. Life is like that. The optimal mixture is up to you.
I am confident that you can forge ahead in a way that is right for you. I also believe that God will accept and bless your best efforts.
Hi JG, Trust your feelings. Own them. Be confident in them. Part of my problems the last few years was that I was felt guilty for my thoughts and feelings. That dragged me down and held me back. Now that I allow myself to think and feel what is really inside me, I feel so liberated.
I’m sorry you’re going through this, but I have to say, what a well worded and thought out post. I’m been having these exact feelings, but couldn’t seem to find a way to express it. I just keep thinking that the church gets in the way of the gospel of Christ. The church I want is one where they strip everything away except the actions and words of Jesus while He was alive, and follow those. Even if those have been altered or watered down over time, they’re still pretty darn great. One of the reasons I have such a hard time going to church is because we can go through the full 3 hours and only hear His name mentioned during the sacrament and at the end of talks and prayers. Sometimes I wonder, are we really a Christian church?
journeygirl wrote:I can’t think how else to describe it. Lately when I contemplate the church, I just sort of have this weird feeling about it.
I don’t know if you’re talking about that weird, displaced, outside-looking-in feeling, but I’ve taken it to mean that I won’t be the same Mormon I used to be, and I think it’s a good change – long overdue, in my case.
Thanks for this post. I agree with writer, it expresses things that I didn’t know how to put into words. This is what caused my FC in the first place. Too many rules, not enough Christ. Confusing to my soul. I want more than anything to have grow Spiritually and I felt stunted and bound. I am glad my Divine part opened me up to more “freedom” and I can see the church for an institution and God for God. I had them intertwined so much and thought that God WAS church. .It was so liberating to separate the two. God is GOD.. church is church. Rules are made up by man. Man cares about all the rules, not God. God cares about US, not rules. (Just to clarify my beliefs about “God”. When I say God, just know that I believe God is within me, not some outside entity that just sits back and doesn’t care, or waits for me to sin. I feel that God is IN me. I am connected to Him/Her. I feel that my goal on earth is to release the Ego and be more fully connected to and live more freely with this connection and by doing so I am connected with everyone.) I am still working on “Commandments and rules and what I think about them. Because so many of the rules that the church has are really good guidelines to follow, and I still adhere to most of them, however, my motives on WHY I do them have changed dramatically.
Thank you so much again for this posts.
“when Jesus was here on earth he was a radical, but now he seems to be a suit and tie conservative.” Remember this is a very US view. In Latin American, one can find “liberation theology”, which is practically Marxist. Even within the USA, Christians have been at the forefront of civil rights for black people, and on anti-nuclear protests.
People like Hugo Chavez and even Fidel Castro, have demonstrated leanings to the church at certain points in their lives.
[img]http://www.churchads.net/past/1999/media/jesus_che.jpg [/img] 
[img]http://www.churchads.net/past/2005/media/birth_of_a_hero.jpg [/img] http://www.churchads.net/past/1999/ Quote:The campaign created some hostility, as described in a BBC news story, with one Member of Parliament describing it as sacrilegious. It provoked a major debate in The Guardian on the subject of religious advertising. We defended the poster in the following way…
“Jesus was not crucified for being meek and mild. He challenged authority. He was given a crown of thorns in a cruel parody of his claims about proclaiming the Kingdom of God. Our poster has the most arresting picture our advertisers could find to convey all this – the image deliberately imitates the style of the well-known poster of Che Guevara.”
SamBee wrote:“when Jesus was here on earth he was a radical, but now he seems to be a suit and tie conservative.”
Remember this is a very US view. In Latin American, one can find “liberation theology”, which is practically Marxist. Even within the USA, Christians have been at the forefront of civil rights for black people, and on anti-nuclear protests.
People like Hugo Chavez and even Fidel Castro, have demonstrated leanings to the church at certain points in their lives.
[img]http://www.churchads.net/past/1999/media/jesus_che.jpg [/img] [img]http://www.churchads.net/past/2005/media/birth_of_a_hero.jpg [/img] http://www.churchads.net/past/1999/ Quote:The campaign created some hostility, as described in a BBC news story, with one Member of Parliament describing it as sacrilegious. It provoked a major debate in The Guardian on the subject of religious advertising. We defended the poster in the following way…
“Jesus was not crucified for being meek and mild. He challenged authority. He was given a crown of thorns in a cruel parody of his claims about proclaiming the Kingdom of God. Our poster has the most arresting picture our advertisers could find to convey all this – the image deliberately imitates the style of the well-known poster of Che Guevara.”
Yes indeed. The symbolism between the 2 is readily apparent when walking around in South America, especially Argentinia.
Where you can hardly walk a single block and not see signs like this.
Some might look at it as sacrilege as I did at first. But on getting to know the people, they are just espousing an ideology if the way the view Jesus and what is to them the modern example of the same ideology that they see in Jesus.
The war part is stripped and the ideology of the idea is talked about. For South Americans there is no suit and tie conformist. There is an ideology the way they read into Jesus about living free from repression of authority, independently while trying to live your life the best you can.
To speak out against rules that ins lave the body and mind, that don’t push humanity forward and stop progressing.
This is the Jesus and “Che” ideology that I encountered.
It’s the way they view and read him in the bible.
Thank you all so much for your responses. It is so nice just to know that there are people out there who understand what I’m going through, or at least even care to address it. I’m sure it will take a while to figure this all out, but you have all given great ideas for me to think about. Today I was wondering if I may be at a point where I don’t want the church to be true. I was trying to remain open to the possibility that despite its flaws it really is lead by God. I just don’t know if I can believe that anymore. The people in it may be inspired by him, but I just don’t know if I can accept that they have anything more than anyone else seeking to do the right things. Maybe that line of thinking can get me a little closer to understanding my feeling. SamBee, I live in Utah, so I guess I was mostly referring to the way the church is presented by the 12 and such. I think in the world Jesus is viewed and thought of more as he is presented in the bible.
I wouldn’t say that Jesus was against everyone who made up rules, we was against the people who made up the wrong kind of rules for the wrong reasons. The rules for the those in power to get gain and for people to judge, persecute and hate others Jesus did away with. However, Jesus also invokes a different set of teachings or rules if you want to call them that of his own, he was just the happiness, feel good guru. Turn the other cheek, if someone compells thee to walk a mile go twain, whoever lust after a woman has already committed adultery in his heart. Those rules Jesus taught were aimed at a heart in the right place and required much more self discipline of personal desires. No to mention his call to leave all behind for the Kingdoms sake, as did the church under Peter as the head shortly after Jesus left, and for the disciples to take up their cross and follow him- signifyiing that death for the kingdom was a likely possibility. Those are pretty hard rules in their own way as far as dedication to the gospel. I think that the churches stance on rules is actually kind of vague in some ways, as far as the church handbook goes, the church just outlines the roles of different callings and what they should do and that’s it. There is a bit much to the administration of the church I feel that comes from a huge church of millions of members. Many of the rules of church though-chastity, scripture study, prayer, tithing, Word of Wisdom, missionary work, callings, do good to others, those are also found among all or some of the Christian denominations from Salvation Army (Good Works) and Jehovah’s Witness (Missionary Work) to the Seventh Day Adventist (Laws of health) and Southern Baptist ( Scriptures and prayer).I feel that the LDS church swings way too much conservative in practice, this is a lot more evident from the local leadership than doctrine taught by the apostles to me. I feel that this leads to church members judging who is worthy of their fast offerings and who is not, the rich being seen as the most worthy members, a lot of judging of those who are deemed not worthy, and a slant of affluent members in leadership callings at local levels in here in the US in general. I feel that this is distinctive from gospel found in the canon of scripture and this is where I really find my connection to God being strengthened, in the gospel of forgiveness, peace, understanding, patience, support, redemption, etc. I feel that reg members too easily just go with the program. Pushing aside all the extra stuff of church administration which I feel can be too cumbersome.I feel that the head of the prophet and twelve are trying to get back to these basics though and while still moving the work forward, but as they have said they have a hard and harder time influencing the church. I feel that a lot this regimentation comes from the lower levels of leadership.
The funny thing about emotion is that personal emotion changes a lot based on understanding, I have noticed. When I have read anti against the church that has set well with, I have not felt very good about the church or even being at church. On the other hand, when I have resolved some of those concerns to greater or lesser extent then I feel great about the church again. The feelings of prayer are I feel are disctinctive from these personal emotions and I would be really careful about leaving the church on personal understanding and emotion alone. I feel that it would be good for you to really study this issue out of what rules Christ and his church implemented and compare that to the rules implemented by the Lds church in its infancy to compare two young and relatively small churches. You may just pray about different aspects of the church and see what you feel is right in your prayers and what is not. Such as: Is Jesus Christ leading the LDS church? Did JS see God and Jesus? Is the BoM inspired scripture? Is the Prophet T.S. Monson, really a prophet? In prayer, you may feel that some of these are true, none or all, but I think feelings in contemplation are different than feelings in prayer a least for me. I think regardless of if someone is LDS or christian, truth that is felt is distinctive. We sometimes know when someone is lying to us, because you feel that uneasy feeling, maybe even sickening or uncomfortable sometimes, and truth also has a distinctive ring., how do you feel when you are participating in ordinances like partaking of the sacrament, scripture study, going to temple if you go, etc because that is where I really feel pureness of the gospel is in the those restored ordinances that does make the LDS church distinctive from others. Anyway, just a few thoughts.
Anyone who does not notice the rebellious aspect of Jesus is blind – this is the man who is supposed to have driven the money lenders and business men out of the temple, hung around with fraudsters, prostitutes and lepers, told people to look after the poor rather than the rich, said pacifists were blessed etc etc My personal feeling is that the US religious right emphasizes creationism etc to distract from its failure to look at the social gospel.
I attend church until it starts to feel icky, then I take a break for a week or two and go for a hike instead. For me the problem with Mormonism is there is to much of it. If the church won’t scale it back then you need to do it on your own. Take those parts that work, ignore the rest. You will feel better about yourself.
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