An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins- by Grant Palmer

[Anonymous]

I certainly agree that Palmer’s work is unorganized and places equal value on both the strong and weak arguments, and he’s not that great of a writer. And I admit I actually became much more doubtful after reading Rough Stone Rolling, but still, the strong arguments are strong. I wonder about your own conclusions from the book?

I think the books presents an opportunity to struggle with a paradigmatic shift from the cultural church to a more holistic view. HiJolly, you quote Shakespeare as an authority on truth, would you say his works are any less inspired than JS? Would God allow pieces of His wisdom to come through an imperfect agent? And I don’t mean imperfect as “every human is imperfect”, I mean it that Joseph may have made this stuff up from being inspired by God, just as Shakespeare is inspired: but it’s still goodness, it’s Christian, it promotes faith and works. HiJolly, you claim to know God is real and how He works with His children, is the certainty of your knowledge any different than the inspiration given to JS, or to Shakespeare for that matter?

And as for my poor mother, I fear she is just another victim of a stagnant religious learning institution.

[Anonymous]

spacious maze wrote:

I certainly agree that Palmer’s work is unorganized and places equal value on both the strong and weak arguments, and he’s not that great of a writer. And I admit I actually became much more doubtful after reading Rough Stone Rolling, but still, the strong arguments are strong. I wonder about your own conclusions from the book?

RSR: loved it; wished he would’ve addressed the questionable historical sources – but I know that wasn’t the point of his book, and it was already long enough.

IVMO: As I said above, just too much negativity and doubt came out in the book. There’s so much beauty and joy in Mormonism. I guess that wasn’t the point of Grant’s book. Oh well.

spacious maze wrote:

I think the books presents an opportunity to struggle with a paradigmatic shift from the cultural church to a more holistic view.

Well, a *different* view, anyway…

spacious maze wrote:

HiJolly, you quote Shakespeare as an authority on truth, would you say his works are any less inspired than JS?

Just to set the record straight, I don’t see Shakespeare as “an authority on truth”, though I *would* say he certainly does understand human nature pretty well. Better than I understand it! Add to that a gift with the language, and he’s well worth reading, IMO. I would say his works are 50% just as inspired, the other 50% not so much. At a guess. And I believe Joseph had a purpose that Shakespeare didn’t share.

spacious maze wrote:

Would God allow pieces of His wisdom to come through an imperfect agent? And I don’t mean imperfect as “every human is imperfect”, I mean it that Joseph may have made this stuff up from being inspired by God, just as Shakespeare is inspired: but it’s still goodness, it’s Christian, it promotes faith and works.

Yes, I think God allows His wisdom and purposes to be furthered by practically anyone. I think all of life is an expression of His intent for us. That’s a mouthful.

spacious maze wrote:

HiJolly, you claim to know God is real and how He works with His children, is the certainty of your knowledge any different than the inspiration given to JS, or to Shakespeare for that matter?

I did kinda say that I know God is real, didn’t I. But on “how He works with His children”, well, I have “some kind of an idea”. Let’s not overstate the case… 😳 But to answer you… Probably different from both. After all, I’m a unique individual, just like everyone else. 😆

HiJolly

[Anonymous]

This was one of the first books I read about Mormonism that wasn’t “faith promoting”. It’s been about 5 years, so my knowledge of the book is hazy. I will say that, at least at the time, I found Palmer’s analysis to be fairly unconvincing. He seemed to go off on tangents that are stretches; attempting to criticize or theorize about the Church with really iffy stuff doesn’t do it for me. A friend of mine knows Grant personally–their study sessions led to the writing of this book–and he feels like Grant wandered off the reservation a bit. Some of the book seemed accurate, and I found it fascinating. However, as a whole, a book like this doesn’t compare in the slightest to an academic book like the kind written by D. Michael Quinn.

[Anonymous]

There are as many ways to strengthen a testimony as there are to distroy one. The more I read on both sides of the issue’s on these threads, the more I am grateful for the slender gleam of light that still lights my mind. I am inactive but still pray to God to help me hold onto the light until I seek the path towards more light.

The mystery of how and who will win the top prize in the next world, will i guess, remain a mystery. The path from preexistence, to earth life, to eternity, for what ever reason, had to be fraught with for most people, with not even knowing there is a plan. And for those who do claim some insight into lifes purpose, confusion on every level, on every issue. And there is no way to change that fact because the confusion is part of the plan. Before God formed the earth He knew the beginning from the end.

I guess we are all responsable for finding a way to make peace with all the confusion. Reading these threads is, up to this point, helping to firm up in my own mind about who I am, where God is concerned. I can look back and work my way to the present and see some reason to hope. Without that thin thread of light, for me, hope would vanish. So no matter what happens in the world and all around me, holding onto the light is where it’s at for me.

Thanks to all of you for being at a different place in your life, and for letting me read about your certainties and un-certainties on all these issues.

[Anonymous]

jeriboy – what a great comment. Thanks!

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