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I came across the following article and blog post today and am passing them on to everyone here for discussion – but I do NOT want the discussion to be about homosexuality, in and of itself. I want it to be about whatever you want to discuss – but . . . I won’t let it turn into anything remotely like a debate about whether or not homosexuality is chosen or genetic, whether or not gay marriage should be allowed or denied, etc. We’ve had those discussions already and can have them again, but I am interested in the actual event that occurred in Scotland – and the blog post and its comments. First, the article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-13780645 Now, the blog post:
http://subrosa-blonde.blogspot.com/2011/06/patrick-harvie-worthy-complaint.html These links didn’t work when I clicked on them, and when I did a work-around using the entire URL by right clicking and going to properties. I fixed the links. They got messed up when I copied them, and I didn’t take the time to check them before I posted. Thanks, SD!
In my experience activists for “tolerance” are some of the most “intolerant” people I have ever met. They don’t want mutual respect and understanding, rather, they believe their paradigm is the only correct one and they want everyone to see the world the way they do – I am frequently amazed at their lack of comprehension regarding the inherent hypocrisy in their dialogue and fail to grasp the two-way street / double-edged sword nature of this “tolerance” idea… Let alone the vast generalizations and stereotypes put forward by the opposing voice in this situation…his view of the Church is rather simplistic and cliche rather than nuanced. His characterization of the church could be cross applied the majority of society up until the last two decades or so. His voice is exactly the voice of the BoM musical – cliche, naive, stereotypes, mis-characterization etc.
People like this objector annoy me because I just want to shout out “YOU DON”T KNOW ME!” Quit assuming you know something about my faith, the way I practice or exemplify my faith, or the way I feel about politics, homosexuality or anything else.
I agree — I like the paradox you’ve uncovered — people asking for tolerance yet being totally intolerant of others who don’t share their views. However, this is mitigated a bit by the fact that they are the Have-Nots in the issue, and we are the Haves. The Have Nots are probably more interested in turning themselves into Haves, and the “tolerance” argument is only there as a supporting argument to their ultimate goal. They are not promoting tolerance for tolerance’s sake; they are promoting tolerance for the sake of getting economic and other advantages in society that have been denied them.
Except in this example the cry for tolerance was directed primarily at taking something away from someone else – Unsure Footing wrote:Except in this example the cry for tolerance was directed primarily at taking something away from someone else –
I’m not sure what you mean – what is the objector in this case trying to take away?
I’m old and gray. I remember the black armbands worn by athletes who were required to play in sporting events against BYU. I remember the embarrassment of church members. I was less than a decade into my career after graduating from a secular college in California. We had held Institute in a private home, and we didn’t really voice it around, Mormons were considered odd. Science, evolution, critical thinking, we just kept taking hits. Now another “cause” has come to the forefront of our faith community. The trouble is, the social media, the communication explosion, is ever so much more apparent today. Strangely enough, I wouldn’t turn back the clock on our Brave New World anyhow. It wouldn’t work to begin with, and it might push us toward becoming the “Shakers” of this century. Not good, only five old ladies yet remain in a faith community which once gathered thousands in. What will Latter-day Saintism be like in 2100? A liberal Mormon wants to know… Interesting comments. Yes, I have encountered this kind of thing before. The assumption is that church members agree with every controversial manifestation of church policy or culture. Maybe they don’t. The person objecting to homophobia is also down as an atheist on one of his websites, so I don’t know if he has an anti-religious ax to grind as well.
Talking of tolerance, in my neck of the woods, there are a lot of people who talk about multiculturalism, but at the same time criticise any support for the indigenous minority languages here. That reeks of doublethink too – how can you be “multicultural” if you agree to oppression/non-support of minority cultures?
I am a volunteer docent at an Indian museum in a high-end school district near the Pacific ocean. I do storytelling for classes of students (mostly fourth grade) who come to visit the museum and be taught Native stories. I have noted in the four weeks of serving there, when the large classes (30-35 students) enter in single file, that the minority kids were always in the rear. I tried to justify it, thinking maybe English skills are lacking, or “standing back” is a culture thing. Finally after the first week, I took action. As part of my discussion, I need to choose “judges” at one point, also a male & female student to put on a few pieces of doubled layered Native clothing to show what Indians of the different regions looked like historically. They also got to hand out small gifts. I started choosing the NATIVE kids. You should their smiles, the pride in having their cultures elevated. Some of the majority kids have started raising their hands with comments like, “I’m part Cherokee.” Of course I praise them and remind them to cherish all their ethnic bloodlines. A few teachers looked sheepish, but several others quickly found cameras to photograph their young charges. It is all good… :clap: Yes, that’s a familiar situation… it comes out of decades (centuries?) of being put down and can be seen in many minority cultures, and also from people of working class backgrounds too. They have been put down for so long, that it’s entered into their culture, and their parents have probably told them to keep their heads down too.
Quote:Some of the majority kids have started raising their hands with comments like, “I’m part Cherokee.” Of course I praise them and remind them to cherish all their ethnic bloodlines.
A hundred years ago, I believe almost nobody was part-Indian in the States, now most people seem to be…
😆 Ah well, I suppose it’s a mixed blessing that native American culture is fashionable again, but at least it means folk won’t be ashamed of it.
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